| Author | Message | ||
     Svttodd |
I was just wondering, are the Buell engines built on the same assembly line as another Harley engines. What I am trying to ask is, are they traveling down the assembly line together, and they take a turn off to be a 'Buell' at some point during the factory build process? How similar is the Buell XB12 engine to other Harley engines? Is it basically the same as the 1200cc Sportster (or any other Harley for that matter), or is it totally different inside/outside? Are the internals interchangeable for the most part? I was just curious. Not that it really matters one way or the other. I still love the XB's! | ||
| M1combat |
I think that the only major interchangeable parts are the jugs... I'm sure there's more and I know some of the little stuff is like the primary chain inspection cover for the new Sportsters and stuff like that. The cases are different, but probably use some of the neat little trick stuff that the Buells use. I would imagine that they probably use the crank breather system but I don't know. The 1200 Sporty makes a LOT less HP I'm sure... | ||
| Cataract2 |
Well, I do know there's the HD logo stamped on the left side of your engine case. Take a look if you don't believe me.  | ||
| Djkaplan |
The engines are fundamentally more alike than you'd think and share a majority of parts. The biggest difference, at least outwardly, is the injection and cam case. | ||
| Race_pirate |
I have both an XB and a XL. Similar but different, from what I have read the clutch and primary are shared and thats it. The timing cone is forward on the XB, the XL its off the rear cams. Someone mentioned the jugs, unless the 05 XL cause they are different from the XB. | ||
| Cruisin |
Don't rely on the HD stamp to identify what's similar. The motors are made by Harley Davidson Motor Company for Buell. I'm sure there's quite a few XB specific parts that will have the HD stamp on them. | ||
| Vr1200r |
The heads and jugs are the same as an 04 and up 1200. The cams are hotter, but harley offers the same spec'd cams for the Sportsters. | ||
| M1combat |
You're telling me you can buy a 103HP Sporty? "The engines are fundamentally more alike than you'd think and share a majority of parts. " Fundamentally? They're "fundamentally" identical. Same angle, Injected, Knife and Fork, Integrated trans, chain primary etc... However, the great lion's share of the parts are different. I'm sure a lot of the bearings and "insignificant" parts are the same, but I think pretty much all the major ones are different. You really think you can get a 103HP Sporty eh? Does it rev to 6800? | ||
| 99buellx1 |
You're telling me you can buy a 103HP Sporty? I dont think that is what he is trying to say. Yes there are shared parts. But just because some parts are the same or are available to be the same does not mean that they will make the same power. The induction and exhaust are partial limiters on a sporty. And no sportsters are not "injected". You may just be suprised how similar they are. | ||
| M1combat |
I don't think I would be... They are "fundamentally" the same engine. I would be interested in knowing what percentage of the parts are actually the same part number or at the least identical. "sportsters are not "injected". " Really? I thought the new ones were. Oh well  . I guess I just don't pay much attention to HDs. | ||
| Buellman39 |
The new sportsters are injected | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you could show some literature on stock 2005 fuel injected Sportsters, I'm sure Harley Davidson would be stunned... | ||
| Djkaplan |
M1combat, I'm not sure what the deal is here or why you seem defensive about this, but I'll respond to your post. "You're telling me you can buy a 103HP Sporty?" If you can show me where I stated that, I'll respond to it. "However, the great lion's share of the parts are different." I'll go on record here and and state that I believe a majority of the parts are identical. "You really think you can get a 103HP Sporty eh? Does it rev to 6800?" Again, if you can show me where I stated that, I'll respond to it. | ||
| BadS1 |
Someone said the cam cover is different.The primary cover is totally different as well. | ||
| M1combat |
Dj - First off... . Now... I was more replying to this... "The heads and jugs are the same as an 04 and up 1200. The cams are hotter, but harley offers the same spec'd cams for the Sportsters." than anything you said when I mentioned the 103 HP Sporty. As I recall, the 1200 sporty has the same stroke and bore as the XB12. If they have the same heads then putting in the same cams would (seems how everyone generally changes to aftermarket pipes and intake anyway) logically produce very near the same power... I don't think that putting XB cams in a 1200 sporty will get you anywhere near 103HP at the crank. In any case... Sorry if I sounded defensive exactly. I didn't mean to, but now that I re-read it, It DOES sound that way. My apologies . I still don't think that the lion's share of the parts are the same. Cases, Cam and primary cover, Cams, crank, trans parts etc... Sure, maybe the heads are the same (although that doesn't seem to make sense, one is down draft, the other side draft...), but I just don't see too many parts as being the same. That said, I've never opened either engine . | ||
| Djkaplan |
Well, I guess we'll have to wait for someone a lot smarter than the both of us (like that's really going to happen..., ahem) to tell us who's right. I really don't know how many of the parts are exactly identical, but I'll bet Buell engineering had to fight tooth and nail with the Harley bean counters for every part they changed! | ||
| Anonymous |
Not only the clutch cover, but the clutch underneath; not only the cam covers, but the cams underneath (and not just grind, they rotate opposite), as well as lifters ,etc. The crankcases are totally different, etc. etc. And where the parts are the same, the Sportster engine uses Buell parts, not the other way around. Don't believe me? Take a 2005 XL motor and compare it to a 2003 XL and a 2003 Buell XB. Guess which one the of XL shares more parts with. | ||
| Odie |
Guess you could say to a snobby Sporty rider that "Your Sporty motor is more Buell than my Buell motor is Sporty" so there! | ||
| Olinxb12r |
When I meet a snobby sporty rider I remind them that their sporty doesn't compare to my XB, and that they should probably take their girlfriend's bike back to her before she gets mad or they wreck it. Thanks Odie, I got a good laugh out of that one. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Don't rely on the HD stamp to identify what's similar. The motors are made by Harley Davidson Motor Company for Buell. I'm sure there's quite a few XB specific parts that will have the HD stamp on them. Lol, I know, I just like to say that to a snobby person who doesn't believe it's an HD motor. (Even after they hear the exhaust note) | ||
| Tomzweifel |
The 2006 Sportsters are available fuel injected. I was in the dealership three weeks ago talking with the sales manager about it - he was placing the order for the 2006's they wanted, and with what equipment. He ordered all of his Sportys injected, no carbs. | ||
| Arkane |
the xb12 has the same bore and stroke as the sporty but a higher compression 10:1 vs 9.7:1 I seem to recall perhaps from the dealer trying to get me to look at a 1200r that the 2005 sporty has buell head's if thats true then the internals difference is probably the cam and the pistons and for the xb9 the jugs connecting rods cams and pistons wonder if the 2006 sporties will use buell ddfi fuel injection or harley espi | ||
| Odinbueller |
The big differences are bore & stroke between the XL & XB motors. Breaks down like this: XL883 = 3.00 in. bore x 3.81 in. stroke. XB9 = 3.500 in. bore x 3.125 in. stroke. XL1200 = 3.50 in. bore x 3.81 in. stroke. XB12 = 3.500 in. bore x 3.812 in. stroke. This is why 1200 conversions are possible on Sportsters with a top simple end replacement, while an XB would require new flywheels & rods. XL 1200 models share the same cams as XBs along with bore & stroke (minimally different in stroke), and I believe no Sportster shares the same heads as an XB due to the fuel injection. XB models have lighter flywheel assemblies for faster reving, while XL flywheels are heavier for more torque. As for 2006 injected Sportsters, the motor company has not released anything official, but anything new would be unveiled this June at the Summer dealer meeting. All signs point that way, it's just squeezing the fuel pump & sender assembly into a 3.3 gallon tank. Also, Buell's DDFI system is made by VDO based on an AlphaN injection system (relies on crank, cam & throttle position sensors for primary input) while the H-D system is made by Delphi based on the Air Density system (relies on crank & manifold absolute pressure sensors for primary input). It is not as simple as slapping the Buell system into a Sportster, since the O2 sensor is not a primary input sensor, but used to minimize emissions & regulate combustion more efficiently while in highway cruising conditions. Also, DDFI does not utilize a MAP sensor Anyway, all the parts are made by Harley-Davidson and assembled at the Capitol Drive Powertrain assembly plant for both Sportster & Buell Motors. Hope this helps. | ||
| Svttodd |
Wow, so many answers! I didn't meat to start any bickering (LOL). I was just curious if the engines rolled down the same assembly line together, and then some motors were pulled off to be turned into XB's at some point while the XL engines continued down the 'standard' assembly line. I thought maybe they were taken to a special build area to be tweaked into Buell engines from regular XL stock short blocks. | ||
| Court |
Life is beautiful. Harley-Davidson's interest in Buell has only a little to do with motorcycles. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Court, I can't find my decoder ring...care to elaborate? | ||
| Jlnance |
I can't find my decoder ring...care to elaborate? I'm guessing Court means that HD is using Buell as an R&D facility. Buell trys out new ideas, and the good ones get incorporated into HD products and probably more importanly HD processes. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Blast, XB and XL engines are built on the SAME assembly line at the Capitol Drive Facility in Wauwatosa, WI. One right after the other on the same line, I guess about 6 XL engines to every XB and Blast are produced. Basically, Buell engines used to be tweaked Sportster motors with brackets and taps added to make them fit the Buell frame. Today, you could say Sportster engines are "detuned" Buell motors in different cases to make them look like the classic XL engine and to mount them to the Sportster Frame. | ||
| S2pengy |
When I toured the Capital Drive plant back when the Sporty engines were assembled at the Capital Drive plant, I was told they would work OT on a Sat and assemble just Buell engines... One days output was good for a couple months... | ||
| Vr1200r |
The crank case is different to fit in the frame. The XL1200 heads have breather holes while the XB heads breath through the rocker boxes. The heads are the same otherwise. New XL's with a pipe and air cleaner change are putting out hp in the low 80's. Add the SE551 cams (which are xb cams for the Sportster cam chest) and I would bet they would be in the mid to upper 80's right with the XB12. The XB12 has a bigger TB and a better intake manifold design to help make up the difference. What do I know? |
