| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
To paraphrase what I said in 1997. . . "Europe is essential to Buell. Selling "sportbikes" in America is a nice thought but the business case just doesn't exist." The 80/20 cruiser-sport ratio in America is inverted in Europe. Buell must think Euro in it's long term interests. Cool part is we all benefit....at least those of us who are not on a waiting list for an FLH. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Apples and Oranges again! I don't disagree with you Aaron, If Buell wants to concentrate on street bikes, fine, they are doing a good job. But going PRO THUNDER racing against 748 "Superbikes" contradicts that "Business Model". If they are going racing against Superbikes, they need a real race bike. Limiting their road racing to the Formula USA Lightning Series seems to me to fit the their "Business Model" better. Greg, The fact that the VR1000 didn't do squat does not seem to be hurting VROD sales, eh? It's a great STREET motor! A Revo powered Buell STREET BIKE would sell faster than they could build them. I'm sure that if BUELL ever goes SUPERBIKE racing, they'll have something new and unusual to offer.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Would it? The VRod is going for what... $17K? So what would that put a Revo in a Buell frame at, $15K? Why would somebody pay an extra 5 grand over a GSXR1000 or a FZ1? I don't even know which Ducs go for $15K, but I bet they are pretty impressive. Sure Buell could cut some costs as it would not necessarily need the hydroformed frame and shiny gas tank, but it would add costs as it would need some world class suspension and brake parts to compete at that level. I can see the logic of a Firebolt. Given the bikes it competes with, it looses a little on peak power, but wins a little on handling, comfort, and character of the power it has. Street prices are likely to be somewhat close (I'm thinking Honda F4i and GSXR-600). So it competes. I don't even understand why the Japanese bikes compete with the Japanese bikes... Suzuki, Kawasaki and Yamaha all make 600cc bikes that are nearly identical and interchangable and not particularly street friendly (though they kick butt at the track). I would never even consider one. But that Firebolt looks VERY good to me, and if somebody dropped a Firebolt, a GSXR-1000, an FZ1, and a ZX12R in my driveway and said pick only one, I would take the Firebolt in a heartbeat. Likewise if I were a rich man and could consider brand new bikes, I would not sweat the $2k price band around the bikes I would consider... anything between $8k and $10k would fall in the same lump and I would pick the bike I want. A $15k bike would have to be incredibly compelling though. But ultimately, I think I agree with Jose, Buell is not choosing not to produce bikes designed for track racing. What I don't understand is why the big three Japanese makers are doing this, and why on earth so many people buy a bike built for the track and ride it around on the street. I bought my Buell (M2) precisely because it was designed to perform as well as practical on real world streets (which includes making it comfortable enough that I ride it more instead of less). I guess you race for love, not for money, and while it would be cool to see a Buell world beater superbike, I am not interested in paying a penny more for my next Buell streetbike to help them get there. | ||
| Anonymous |
Why would anyone pay $10,000 for a 92 CHP Firebolt when the same money gets you a top of the line Jap superbike? We love Harleys! | ||
| Budo |
It would be interesting to see the age breakdown of the buyers of the 600 class machines. I am sure most of them are twenty something. The 600s sell so well cause they win, or at least race on sunday. This crowd is very image conscious and peer pressure conscious. These guys are very much into flash looks. You want to get a sea of blank looks, say 'counter steering' to them. Also the bikes are not too expensive. Used ones can be had for thousands less than new. In my area most of the kids pay cash for these bikes so they only have to have liability insurance. I on the other hand am a forty something. I wanted a bike with a comfortable up-right riding position, among other things. A salesman from the local HD/Buell shop took a X1 out on a Sunday morning ride with my club to demo the bike. He swapped bikes with everyone that wanted a ride. Funny thing the guys coming off of inline fours could not ride the X1. They could not get used to the 6800rmp redline. One of the kids even said 'I don't know how to ride this thing!'. His bike was a 600 Suzuki Bandit. This is the crowd Buell intends to sell the Firebolt to? | ||
| Arbalest |
Reepicheep: "What I don't understand is why the big three Japanese makers are doing this, and why on earth so many people buy a bike built for the track and ride it around on the street." Can you spell SQUID? I rode an 88 Honda CBR1000 for 5 years. In the 5 years I rode it, I can count the times on one hand when I ever had it over 115 mph. The bike redlined at 10500. I spent most of my time between 2000 and 5000 rpm. Based on a dyno chart of the bike, I spent most of my time in the 40-80 rwhp envelope. I never worried about keeping up with the squids, still don't. I sold the CBR and went back to a 82 Honda FT500 (albeit, not stock)single. I wanted a Blast, but, alas, they chose to ignore my segment of the market, and make a beginner only bike. If they had just put 17" wheels and adjustable suspension on it.... | ||
| Aaron |
Jose': I don't know the logic behind racing in Pro Thunder, and I won't defend it. Perhaps they think that any track presence is better than none. Perhaps they anticipated doing a whole lot better. Perhaps Erik just loves racing so much he'd rather be there, not winning, than be home (I can certainly relate to that one). Who knows? I guess, from my point of view, someone at Buell sees logic in it so they're doing it. Yes, once again, I know that I don't have all the details, so I'm reluctant to second guess them. And anyway, so what if they do race and fail? No skin off my nose. It doesn't really affect my buying decisions one way or the other, although I don't doubt that it does affect it for some other folks. But hey, that's Buell's problem, not mine, I'm not going to get spun up over it, and I don't understand why anyone does. Blake sez: "I am totally bummed that the tube/truss frames are soon to be history." I'm with you. The Firebolt frame really takes away the whole naked look, as well as complicating service. Sigh. Maybe I need to just do like Jack and get a big motor, or maybe do like Pammy and build an 88. Waiting for someone to build it for me is not looking good. AW | ||
| Mikej |
"..., Buell is not choosing not to produce bikes designed for track racing." I'm confused  "What I don't understand is ... why on earth so many people buy a bike built for the track and ride it around on the street." The words "wannabe" and/or "fun" come to mind. "I bought my Buell (M2) precisely because it was designed to perform as well as practical on real world streets (which includes making it comfortable enough that I ride it more instead of less). " That is pretty much my general definition of what a "road bike" is, a bike set up for a road rider, handles well, performs well, and is set up for use on the public roadways, with enough extra for that fun hooligan aspect. Ride it as much as you want, cross country or local, and crank on it when you want to. It's a road bike, plain and simple. "It would be interesting to see the age breakdown of the buyers of the 600 class machines. I am sure most of them are twenty something." I don't know the actual demographics, but locally I see a lot of 30-40-50 year olds on the 600cc class bikes. But they have them to ride, not to pose on, and most of them like to get a little squirrely sometimes, not squid-like, rather more like an experienced motorcyclist who likes some performance and rides their bike more for fun than for daily transportation. Yeah there are the late-teen-to-20-somethings, but most of their bikes don't last too long due to tickets or insurance or crashes. I'm sort of seeing the XB as a road bike with an edge to it. Sort of along the lines of like the S1 is/was. I don't expect to see many of them being ridden with a passenger on back. | ||
| Buellzebub |
We should start a S1 revival group! if H-D would only make the new S1 with a 88",91" or 100" motor with a little shorter stroke, stiffer suspension and optional clip-ons... the true beauty of this bike is its naked simplicity which can be easily maintained while giving the masses the power and torque we desire so much. then market the hell out of it as a true streetfighter, i bet people would notice just dreaming, but wouldn't that be nice, i'd put money down on one in an instant. | ||
| Aaron |
Buellzebub ... I'm with you 100% ... except I'd like a slightly larger seat. The S1 seat is a freakin' torture rack. | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Dave, that's an interesting and logical argument I hadn't thought of...kinda cool actually...sorta the bizarro-world version of Ducati (who sells most of it's product to America); Buell would have mostly overseas sales...hhhmmm. ============ Geez blake, you've got some silly squid friends if they rarely ride above 7k rpm. I cruise at nothing less that 5,500...more like right at 7k cause that's were the power starts. Just like the Buell, I cruise at 3k, only in really slow traffic do I go lower. ============ Actually from my experience, you see more squids on anything but a 600 (ala 750 or litre bikes) cause the 600's cost nearly as much w/o the same power (course, thankfully, I don't live in a state whose insurance punishes by model or displacment). I see more experienced riders on 600 class machines. For me, a 600 class machine is just about perfect (if only they had the torque of a twin...which is what I was hoping for from the XB)...superlight weight, small, nimble, fast, blah, blah, blah... Egads, I will agree w/ Aaron on one thing...the loss of the tube frame Buells is a real shame. One of their prettiest and most unique features, now gone. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| S320002 |
In answer to the spelling question. SQUID, SQUashed kID. Talked to a 40 something ex-roadracer one time. He said the 600s were a lot more fun to ride in the real world because, "You spend more time twisting the throttle than you do grabbing the brake. With the a liter class bike its just the oppisite." Greg | ||
| Sarodude |
Neil Said Egads, I will agree w/ Aaron on one thing And the Angels sang. And the sun hath Shone through the Dark Clouds. And starting a sentence with 'And' is terrible grammar. -Saro | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Amen Greg, that friend put it nicely. ============== So then why you pissin in everyone's cornflakes??? I've yet to see a "stone" thrown. No attacks, accusations, whatnot. Just discussion what we'd like to see them be. Where's the harm? I don't know of a group of enthusiasts (regardless of the source of their passion) who don't do similar (way before the internet came into being). We're not in the boardroom, we're not affecting any decisions BMC could ever make by distracting from the real issue. We're just fucking talking about what we'd like to see. Yet, you've attacked me, thow accusations (that you won't answer) and generally sit in your ivory tower casting dispersions at us around the water cooler and then sit back saying how your above it. Cripes, who's the whinner again?? Neil Garretson X0.5 |
