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     Mikej |
Stranger things have happened. Grass roots being the sort of thing they are and all. Let's see, someone said LSR and several records fell. But my take on it is to wait just a short while to see what the ET folks come up with. Besides, that will give me time to complete my degree, then I can really start to play with some ideas.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| S320002 |
Where do I sign up?!!! Greg | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pammy |
Spike, was that retail on your bike? If so You are the man! I was refering to retail. Heck, resale isn't any better on Buells than on asian models.I once bought a CBR600 for $125.00. I think most of us rationalize our emotional purchases and that is fine by me.(although I think I am WAY past any rationalization on my beast) Did I read something about petty women...is that different than petty men? hmmmm No harm, no foul...(I'm just bustin' your chops, Aaron) THIS petty woman has 120 rear wheel hp(there abouts) and 106 ft lbs of trq at 6k or so! Normally asparated, I might add. I don't have to wish and dream and moan and groan(o.k. just a little) Life has to include some frivilous(sp) indulgences or else it becomes pretty boring. I do what I have to do...that makes me responsible. I do what I like/love to do...that makes me happy. It's good to KNOW/have/do what "floats your boat" and my BUELL(as well as my job) fills my sail baby!!! We built an S-1 that has 142 hp and I think around 126 ft lbs of trq...but would I do that on a mass production level? HELLO NO!!! As OLD prez Bush would say..."not prudent". Not real rider friendly on the 55" wheel base and maintenance is a little more tedious. I think BUELL is balancing on that fine line between what the consumers want and what they can afford to support. I think they are trying to "ease" the consumer towards something a little more mainstream without losing their loyal followers. I can see their delima. They have been doing things a certain way for around 100 years and the nostalgia sells(profitably) for them. But they know that they need to evolve in a big way. How do you do that and not lose your customer base? How can Harley/Buell be Harley/Buell if they are Honda/Kaw/Suz? Anyway...my head hurts now...I gotta get back to my womens work...I'll leave you MENfolk to the bickering.. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
It's amazing, about 45 miles away from E. Troy, there is a company building a motorcycle that is unlike any they have ever built before, a 600 pound bike that is FASTER in a straight line in stock form than a Stock BUELL (except maybe the Firebolt), revs to 9000 rpm and is smoother and more REFINED than any Buell! VROD, ever heard of it? It seems to be selling well, and the magazines seem to love the engine so far. Like I predicted back in March, in the short term, look for the 1300 cc "BigBolt", but eventually, a Revolution engined Buell will have all of us putting down deposits at your local dealer. HD did all the hard work developing the engine, now it's up to Buell to showcase it in a chassis that can really handle! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Aaron, remember this?
Erik Buell, interview in Gazette9.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
What I said before is what I think will happen. What I hope will happen is that Buell somehow makes a street legal four stroke version of the Square Four RW750. That truly would be "Different in every Sense" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pammy |
I will assume that the retorical question(VROD, ever heard of it? ) was aimed at me. Since you took my quote out of context, I will answer your question...Yes I have heard of the V-Rod...I also know that they did not replace their mainstay product with the NEW motor. The V-Rod, in my opinion, is Harley EASING customers into mainstream motoring. If HD wasn't afraid of losing a big crowd of their loyal followers, why didn't they make an across the board change? Cause they are a phenomenal marketing machine, that's why. They want to draw in new customers without losing ANY of their old customers. Hopefully they can convert some of the old customers along the way. Sorry, that's a longer and MORE boring(if that's possible)version of what I said before. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
No argument there, Yes Harley needs to EASE their existing customers, but BUELL needs a STAMPEDE of new customers that typically are looking for technology and performance first, and the Revolution engine is the bait that Buell should use to attract that crowd. That is, unless Mr. Buell wants to be a Niche player, unlike the statements quoted above that he would rather be like Mr. Honda. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Aaron |
Yup, I remember that, it was with respect to the Blast. That seems to be a statement about volume, though, not going head to head in Superbike. Hey, remember, this is a guy who's most admired bike is a Super Cub! I keep coming back to this, but I really think they have and will continue to approach this as a business. I betcha money they ran the numbers and saw that yes, the V-Rod business case made sense, i.e. they could sell enough of them, at enough of a profit, to recoup their investment and make a tidy sum in the process. But was the same true in the Superbike market? Just think about it for a second. Look at how many monied yuppies want a Harley for a status symbol. Look at what they can get for those V-rods. Look how many folks are standing in line to pay a huge pile of money for them. Look at the competition. What, the VTX? Or the Valkyrie? Gimme a break. Now look at the Superbike market. The Japanese make a hell of a good bike. So do the Italians. Bikes sit unsold at dealers, leftovers are not unusual. Hell, a bike that's a year old is obsolete and has to be sold at a loss. It's not at all clear you can even sell the damn things, much less be able to get a premium for them. Now, if you were Jeff Bluestein, and you had X dollars to spend on R&D, where would you invest it? The product that's guaranteed to make you piles of money? Investing in the core business that's paying the bills? Or the hit-or-miss product in the fickle cutthroat market? Neil's position is that in their analysis, they simply did it wrong, i.e. they didn't properly weigh "$ saved v. what's going to be lost with a continued weak position in the market place". Myself, I reject this whole notion that we know more about it than them, because we read it on LaBusas or something. We know a fraction of what they know about the whole thing. To sit here and say otherwise is both ignorant and arrogant. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking. Whatever, we're kidding ourselves. Clearly they were able to rationalize a project with the scope of the Firebolt. By leveraging a lot on the motor, they were able to make a pretty neat bike happen with the resources they had available. And they must have reason to believe there's enough of a market for it to justify it. I do see a lot of people interested in it. No, I'm not one of them, but so what? Does that mean the company is afu? I don't see it that way. They're doing what makes sense to them, and they know more about it than me. I wish'em luck. I hope they can justify doing the bike I want some day, too. But I won't sit around forever waiting for it and complaining about it. I understand the desire to "buy American", hell, I've never owned a foreign car in my whole life. But fercrissakes, I've never had a need to, IMO domestic automakers have some fine offerings. Make no mistake about it, my loyalty to Buell is limited. If someone else makes my 100" naked streetfighter before Buell, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. Maybe that's selfish, I don't know, but that's the way the world works. Beats the hell out of spending my life hoping Buell makes what I want, and complaining when they don't. Buell doesn't owe that to me, Buell's gonna do what they think is right for Buell, and I'm gonna do the same for myself. When they make the product I want, I'll buy it, if they don't and someone else does, I'll buy from someone else instead. Life's just too short. AW | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Budo |
I really don't think Buell is going to get the volume of sales they might want as long as people have to go to a Harely Dealer to see a Buell. Deanna at Modesto said they fought long and hard to get a stand alone shop. When they did, business went up 500%. There are so many people who will not go into a Harley shop. Cause they think you have to put on leather chaps and a leather vest first. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Aaron has a pretty good hadle on it. One thing that we forget, this is not just about America. If it was Buell would have a very tough time ahead of it.. No it is about Europe and Japan. In the USA large cruisers and tour bikes dominate with other bikes including sport bikes takign about a third of the martket. In europe those two groups take less than one third while dual purpose, monster, naked sport bikes etc dominate. AND many popular euro bikes are smalls good handling bikes that are "fast enough" and perform well on the real road there. You have to remember that what we consider a "good" motocycle road is often the main highway in much of Europe. I predict that the XB will be just about the "perfect" euro bike more than enough horsepower for anyplace except the motorways (which with the GATSO cameras are really expensive places to go real fast) and the size and handling to make short work of the B roads and most bikes you would encounter on them. A sales hit in Europe could not only move twice the bikes that woudl get sold here it would bolsters HD weak position in the markets over there. Dave Dave | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Neil: "From guestimates here on the XB, any modern 600 won't be that far behind in midrange, drop a gear and whack that throttle...big deal." It is for me. And I think a lot of riders. That's the big appeal of a low reving engine. An engine that sounds like a turbine stresses me out. I might consider an IL4 someday, but it will be more in the class of a Busa, something with enough down low to satisfy my minimum daily requirement for torque .  If you consider that the 600's midrange is around 7 grand (redlines are 14 grand or more) you'd be right. However, not many riders, even 600 riders, will be seen riding around town at 7 grand. My point is that while riding around at a normal pace, the 600 rider will need to downshift to get into the powerband where the XB9R rider can simply roll on the throttle. Even the king of the hill GSXR600 doesn't break 40 RWHP until reving over 6 grand.
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| Blake |
Dave: That's a great point of view I for one had not considered. Makes a HUGE amount of sense too. I hope it pans out for BMC! On another note, I am totally bummed that the tube/truss frames are soon to be history. I agree with whoever first offered the idea that BMC should keep at least one model with the tube/truss frame. I'd say bring back the S1 and keep it around like Duc does the M900. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jmartz |
I'm sitting here thinking what will become of my S1. In a matter of months the line of motorcycles it inspired will be history. The future of the Sportster line is likely to include some redesign as it is the last Harley model whose vibration "problem" has not been addresed. It is possible that the old mill with the skirted cam cover sporting a generator portion that today is only decorative will be replaced. Here we are contemplating the possible end of the motor that began in 1957. I guess I can find comfort in the fact that the soul of the old mill still lives inside the "new" Firebolt powerplant. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| S320002 |
Quote; "HD did all the hard work developing the engine, now it's up to Buell to showcase it in a chassis that can really handle!" See quote below. Quote: "And please don't bring up the VR engine. That engine failed to win a race for Harley. If Erik intends to compete you know he's going to do it with something inovative." If you really think that Buell needs a race bike, why in the HELL would you want it to be based on an engine that failed to win a race in eight years??? Greg |
