| Author | Message | ||
     Rigga |
roughly the same,though the stock ecm with tfi is adjustable to a degree.....race ecm fuelling is set but works well..... | ||
| Jan_lee |
what about a race ecm and the tfi? | ||
| Rigga |
tfi was not designed to run with the race ecm,although i have that set up and am very happy with its performance...... jersey guy has hooked his bike up to a data logging set up and it seems the race ecm needs very little adding by the tfi at mid to high rpm's...mainly low down so the settings are up to roughly 3 0n the first pot and nearly off on the others as the race ecm seems to supply more than enough fuel at these points...there are a couple of recent threads on this subject | ||
| Jan_lee |
i am running a tfi with a race ecm 12 air box new force pipe on my 9r any thoughts on pot positions. | ||
| Rigga |
hard to say without having it set on a dyno but from recent postings the force pipe seems not to weaken the mixture off as much as a free flowing pipe should do,other members on here with the force pipe have found it to be running pretty rich so needed the number 2 and 3 pots turned fully ant clockwise,pot number 1 set to 2 or 3 if i recall correctly set pot 4 to position 8, all oclock positions....if you can invest in a dyno run to finalise the fuelling its highly recomended,exact settings without is just guessing which may or may not do some harm to your motor | ||
| M1combat |
On a 12 w/ a Force and race ECM I'm running Off, :30 from off (1:30), Off, and 8:00. | ||
| Rigga |
m1combat..... i thought it was something like that with your force pipe and race ecm..... | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Sorry guys, I've been slacking a bit on my testing. Between Brag POT, income tax & a heavy workload, I haven't had much time to test. Right now I have just the race ECM installed and I've been recording normal riding. I've studied it some and the data indicates that the race RCM drives lambda quite low (rich) at high throttle openings. I thought it was the TFI doing it but it's not. Under typical normal riding conditions like on the highway the Race ECM keeps lambda around .95 which is a touch rich for power but probably an OK compromise on gas mileage. It is generally leaner at lower RPMs and lower throttle openings and generally richer at high throttle openings regardless of RPM. Its a judgment call, but I think the race ECM could use a little gas in the 2000 to 3500 RPM range at low throttle openings. Thus my conclusion for the Race ECM is that the TFI settings should be 3,0,0,7 or maybe 8. Probably if you have the race ECM the TFI doesn't do all that much. Again, it's a judgment call & yours to make. To defend Dobeck, he made the TFI for the stock ECM & not the race ECM. Now the question is begged: Is the stock ECM with TFI better than the race ECM alone? I have a stock ECM and I plan to test it out. Before I test the stock ECM I have to test the new Drummer SS that Kevin sent me for evaluation. It's going to be a long summer... | ||
| Norrisperformance |
tfi was not designed to run with the race ecm The tfi was not designed for Buells, just adapted for it. Dobeck is not the manufacture, only a distributor. Although Mark Dobeck did help with the funding. It was designed by Richard Botting @ TFI in Canada . The info I sent Dobeck on my testing, with race ecm and the tfi, was the first dynos they had got on a 12. My bike needed the tfi badly, with the race ecm. So in my case the race ecm by itself was not enough. The bike ran over 16.0:1 with the race ecm. The race ecm also has a better timing curve. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Here’s another example. Spikes Bike: 12, Race ecm, K&N, Drummer. His bike ran 15.5:1 up to 5000 rpm. @ 5000 it dropped to 14.2:1 So he also added a tfi to correct the problem. Maybe the 9 and 12s are different. | ||
| Hogs |
M1 could you give me those settings again is pot 1 off , pot 2 ? pot 3 ?? and pot 4 is at 8 i see that.. the others not sure what you are saying there?? Thanks Bud | ||
| Opto |
The 9's and 12's race ecm's do seem to be a lot different. From all the posts I've seen over the last year and personal experience the 12 race ecm seems to be the one most capable of running leanest, while the 9 race ecm seems to be the pick of the bunch. The stock 12 ecm does the job (works and works well except after erratic weather changes) and I don't know anything about the stock 9 ecm's. | ||
| Sweetp411 |
I went onto Techlusions website www.techlusion.com , I realize dobeck is just a retailer, but they have a good FQA section on there and also a great forum to get ?'s answered about the TFI. I know that the spec guys on there say that the TFI is specifically designed to run off of the stock ECM fuel mapping, and that any alterations to the stock ECM or an add on ECM might negate any of the TFI's capabilities. And there are also some feedback on POT settings for the TFI, I think it went something like this set up was the best performing. Pot Settings: 1 - 3:30 2 - 7 3 - 4 4 - 8:15 maybe that will help, that website has some good info on it | ||
| Fullpower |
interesting synopsis opto. do you know of anyone who has tried the stock 9 ecm on a 12? | ||
| Norrisperformance |
I have read here you would have problems because of the stroke. That makes no since. I think it will work. | ||
| Rigga |
it wont as the rev ceiling for the 9 is higher han the 12...fitting a 9 ecm to the 12 motor will cause serious problems....the longer stroke 12 engine will not take lightly running to the higher rev limiter of the 9 ecm boom time | ||
| Rigga |
mind you norris...... going on all your recent postings maybe the drummer might fix that...lol | ||
| Opto |
I don't think the stroke would make any diff either, the timing could be tweaked if needed by moving the cam position sensor, I wouldn't be worried about throwing the injection out by a few degrees (because I've already done that on my bike). Dean, I suspect M1Combat will be trying a 9 ecm soon. He'll get the higher rev limit on the 12 and has the TFI, he might not need the TFI, dunno about how rich/lean it'll run because they're different injectors, fuel map and throttlebody. I haven't been in communication with him, just reading between the lines. You won't hurt a motor just starting it up and see if it runs...no load, no heat, no damage. | ||
| Ingemar |
I was thinking the other way around... Throw a 12 pipe with stock 12 ecm on a 9. I know about the rev limit, but I was wondering how a 12 pipe with that kinky valve would do on a 9. Prob'ly nothin' more than a silly thought tho ... | ||
| Rigga |
just starting the motor to see how it runs will be ok....its revving the thing beyond its designed range that wil cause problems,the longer throw of the crank will not like being revved any higher than the 12 ecm already lets it,thats why rev limiters are there,to ty to increase the rev range is asking or trouble,its been tried before and the longer throw 12 crank assembly will not last long if its revved to the 9 limiter....matt at trojan was very sucessful in a national series with an xb and these things have been tried,this he asures me is a no go...might be ok if you just want to cruise about but whats the point in that,you ride it as its meant to be ridden and you might very well find a lot of bits underneath you..... | ||
| Hogs |
Rigga, I think That with regards to the little 500 rpms more of reving is no big deal , YEs it may take the motor down quicker meaning the crank pin, bearings etc. but who knows how quicker...>?? I run a 5 inch stroker 1701 cc`s Bored ,punched hemi heads etc, etc NO rev limiter Now has like 7ooo miles on the engine and they are HARD miles atleast the 4000 miles after breakend are and its as strong now as ever , one just has to realize that YEs it will wear things out quicker , piston speed is up and all but IF you are into it , IT just means a tear down maybe not at 40000 miles or more maybe 20000 or sooner miles who knows when???The price we all pay for performance mods.. HAd to throw that .03 cents in there | ||
| Rigga |
hogs.... how goes it? for sure if we change parts o the bike and try to increase performance from stock ten we are taking a chance on messing up the reliability of the motor...im sure even we can agree on that lol just my point was its been tried by a very successful race team here in the uk that won a series with their xb,so im asssuming they know what they are on about,and the 9 ecm fitted to a 12 does not work.....i know what you are saying about your bike an all,but hey if someone wants to try it...... | ||
| Opto |
Rigga, I agree, if you're going to sit at 7500 rpm all the time on a 12 something will happen, but I also agree with Hogs - you pay for performance. We might even find that it's quicker to shift at 7100 rather than hang on for a few hundred more rpm, I know my 12 is still pulling like a freight train at 6800, but I've only ever hit the rev limiter about a dozen times in 18 months, usually from trying to keep up with Jap bikes on straight roads. In the twisties, there's enough hp without wringing it's neck. | ||
| Hogs |
Hi Guys , all I was saying was with regards to the 500 rpms,all other things being equal in the ecms.. but we all know atleast that is not true, so I wd. never do it too many different things inside the 9 and 12 maps...timing, fuel curves and the list goes on and on... | ||
| Rigga |
thing is opto.can you guarentee shifting before reaching too high revs every time? thats what the limiter is for,no over rev situations,sometimes hitting a bump on the road while on the gas can increase revs to the point the limiter bangs in....all well and good when its not going to rev any higher than designed to,but not when its got the chance of going too high...700rpm on its own might not sound like a lot,but with two heavy slugs traveling up and down the bores theres a lot of inertia going on in there...as you guys say,just my two cents ...lol | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Rigga I had it coming. lol | ||
| Rigga |
norris.....glad you took it the way it was intended....looked a bit harsh after i posted it up...lol | ||
| Craigster |
Just for ref, I've spun my old 1203 M2 to 7500. Not often, but sometimes when I've screw'ed up during a little front wheel loft. No issues with stretched rods or broken pins and pistons. | ||
| Outrider |
Gosh...How did we ever survive before they invented the rev limiter.  | ||
| Rigga |
same way you were alright before the pc was invented i guess | ||
| Outrider |
LMAO...Wrong comparison, but thanks for the response. The PC was the best thing that ever happened to me back when corporate computers were strictly used for Finance and Operations. Spreadsheets, data base and word processing programs saved me tons of time and made me more productive. Additionally, the PC made me tons of commission and bonus money in the process. Then that was before Al Gore invented the Internet and everyone started screwing off during office hours. All a rev limiter does is protect you (read: your bike) from yourself. It also helps reduce the warranty claims from the manufacturers perspective. A rev limiter is sort of like having a "Little Electronic Cop" installed without your permission and no way to get around it short of converting to carbs and an aftermarket ignition control. Fortunately, with the Buell's torque in the low and mid range, I never see the limiter in the twisties and I don't push it in the straights as that's where the "Real Cops" like to hide around here. I contend that a Shift Light would be more effective for the rider. Man, it sucks to lose power when you are dicing up a storm. At least the shift light would allow you to change gears before your ignition goes blaaaa. Whoops, I think I just answered my own question. Add a shift light and I won't be bothered by the rev limiter. Dang...Sometimes it hurts to be old. If I weren't then I would be living the good old days now, eh? The next thing you know is someone it going to tell us how much they love the CARB and the EPA.  Dang, I must really be bored today. Hope you found the humor in the post. | ||
| Diablobrian |
PC? I never saw political correctness as something I needed either!  | ||
| Rageonthedl |
Did you say shift light???....  | ||
| Rigga |
as i say you managed to survive before all these gizmo's were around to help you | ||
| Outrider |
Rigga...Whoops, must have misinterpreted your comment in the midst of my doing the LMAO thing. Probably should have taken a nap rather than responding, eh? Isn't that what old guys are supposed to do? LOL | ||
| Opto |
Yeh, but unlike any other bike I've owned, the XB12 hits the rev limiter like a brick wall... The other bikes either didn't have a limiter, or ran out of breath before red-line. |
