| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
Look, not to defend the XB, but who said it's a sportsbike ? And no that isn't meant to be sarcasm. You might remember, I wasn't particularly fond of the XB, until I saw it in the 'flesh', but when I did I realised that the name Sportsfighter was no accident. No way did they build the XB then 'coin the phrase'. I reckon there's a good chance those design guru's at Buell had read these pages and come up with something we all would recognise as , well, a Buell I guess, but a Buell that kept it's Streetfighter title but more, took it to a new level, and we'd welcome it with twisting right hands. As for the motor, I love the V twin Harley lumps but I don't buy that tooling cost story at all when it comes to the XB\Blast design, unless greed was the overriding factor. It's more common place these days for companys to build engines from scratch, some minor companys at that. The best technological example has to be MV's four. It's like they just rose from the ashes and hey presto, here's a high tech ohc, multi valve 750 motor that'll crack 135BHP with ease. To date, the motor has proven itself extremely reliable, and they build it in house, and I don't see MV having anywhere near as much wonga in the bank as H(undred) D(ollars) have. However, I'd still like to see Buell get around to building a high tech 'modern' motor. V twin of course (just to stuff one in the eye of the TL competition), then stuff it in an XB, and Buell would have a stampede on their hands, which in retrospect would probabaly be a bad thing. I mean, can you image "Everyone on a Buell"  ? Rocket in England | ||
| Jmartz |
Rocket: We love Buells, there is no doubt about that. We want to go fast (er), that is also a fact. Constructive criticism is necessary so the company knows how many of us faithful owners are not going to be satisfied with lackluster performance no matter how innovative. | ||
| Paulinoz |
If we all wanted DOHC / H2O cooling, V Twin naked bikes why don't we all ride Duc Monsters. Go out and test ride one then see if it puts a smile on your face like a Buel will. If you like the monster then dont wait for Buell go with Duc, but I tested the new one recently and it's a very good bike but it ain't no Buell top end was good but the low down tractor like pull of the Buell was'nt their. I like a bike that is capable of diving round the outside of another in a turn then nailing the thrrotle and the front end reaching for the sky if they then pass me in the straight that's ok because the next corner is never to far away. I've got my deposit on the XB9R and waiting. | ||
| Rocketman |
I agree Jose, but I've managed to view the Firebolt in the light that I hope Buell intended. I guess I'm saying that the XB , with its short wheelbase and lightweight might not have been, if an ohc multi valve V twin was employed. Perhaps it's down to motor dimensions and weight where it gains its biggest advantage. In any case, they'll bring out a larger capacity motor for sure because as all Americans know, they ain't no substitute for cubes. Rocket in England | ||
| Aaron |
Paul: See, that's what I'm still not getting, and probably never will get. People keep insisting that Buell build something else, even to the point of incessantly putting down the current approach, while at the same time, there's a plethora of bikes on the market that match what they're asking for. Why sit around and bitch at at Buell for not making what you want? Why not just go buy the other bike? I don't get it. It makes no sense to me. Don't manufacturers make a variety of bikes because we have a variety of tastes? Man, buy what appeals to you, that's what it's all about. Life's too short to hold back buying it because it doesn't have the right word written on the tank. Who gives a rat's ass. | ||
| S320002 |
Thanks guys. For a while there I was feeling like a Buell rider at a Duc convention. ;-) Greg | ||
| Rocketman |
Aaron : Have you managed to see the Firebolt yet ? Rocket in England | ||
| Aaron |
No. But it's not my cup of tea. I like'em simple and naked. Your bike is great. X1's don't interest me, either. The XB strikes me as a refined X1. Different strokes. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
That would be because it's the ONLY AMERICAN "sportbike"!
One word: Aprilia. They did in two years what HD could never do in seven: win a freaking race! Benelli and the Foggy/Sauber are following the same pattern, build a proper race bike, get the exposure, hopefully some wins, and the street bike will sell itself.
Buell does, by trying to race 750 Ducatis in Pro Thunder under rules that allow Buell to use things that they won't sell for their street bikes such as 1350cc's, twin brakes and a full fairing. And they still blow up! That's my beef with their approach. If Buell didn't race, then fine, make the best streetbike and be happy with it. BMW and Moto Guzzi don't race, but they don't go around claiming they are "sport bikes" either! But they try to race these things against bikes designed for racing from a clean sheet of paper, and it will never work. Triumph doesn't waste money racing, yet they sell bikes (ie Daytona & TT600) that could compete. Buell doesn't make anything that can compete in stock form, but they go racing? It doesn't make Buells look good when they have double the displacement and still get their asses kicked by a 750 Ducati! And they BOTH have major factory backing, as the BUELL engines are put together in East Troy and shipped to Hals and Dave's Tilley Bike. Don builds Tripp's engine. Buell trying to race a street bike against racing bikes is as stupid as a company that only sells cruisers (HD) trying to race against companies whose whole identity revolve around racing (DUCATI, APRILIA). HD got out. Will Buell get out or bring a real race bike to the game?  | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I agree with Dave, the XB is the best engine BUELL/HD could design using the existing tooling. This does save them a lot of money. I wish they would have added a sixth gear, and changed the primary chain for gear drive. I wonder what the sportster people are thinking. The sportster engine hasn't really improved in years, mainly little things (the high contact ratio cams, oil pump, cylinder liners) to improve durability and reduce engine noise. No real power gains since the '98 XL1200S. All the major improvements (cams, heads) are from development by BUELL. And now they get their own XB engine! Sportster people got what, a dirt track wannabe? Hopefully the long wait ends this year. | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Aaron, what disdain? Read Jmartz and Jose's comments...I guess they express themselves clearer than I do. (?? as you don't seem to accuse them of the same) I like the *concept* (though I guess now your going to say that I have no idea what that concept is) of Buell...and american (and different) sportbike! The XB is not moving forward in that direction, in my opinion. First, I'll deal w/ why I own one...for the most part I like it. I represents (to me) the last of the true Buells, in that it's still got a lot of pilfered HD parts; it was designed and built on a shoestring w/ creative engineering to overcome the lack of funds...truely innovative. Yes I might bitch and complain, but what else if the internet for?  I took to heart our little head butting a couple months ago, have really tried to curb the smart-ass quips that seemed to offend...I guess to little avail. Second, I was really hoping that w/ the new bike (now the XB) that was rumored for so long, that it'd be a proper sportbike. Buell had no more excuses, they had the financial backing of HD (which they previously didn't) to develop a proper sportbike. I've got nothing wrong w/ a competative pushrod, 2v motor...I just don't see it physically happening (w/o silly Pro Thunder shenanigans like big bores, etc.)...so your left with moving forward and using more advanced technology (ala, OHC, 4 or 5 valve, VVT, etc...)...why is that so bad, or so against the concept? Did I miss it somewhere in the Buell history that he's against more modern engine design? If so, I find that really odd as he's a forward thinking person regarding other engineering tasks. Buell can call the thing a sportfighter all they want, to me, their marketing is squarely as a sportbike. To answer your question, why people sit around and bitch...emotional capital! For varying reasons, we all have an emotional investment in this (and other) brand, this BBS and it's assorted members, etc. You want to see 'your' team win and kick ass, you get a little disappointed when they don't! As I've said numerous times, it's fine if Buell doesn't want to build a real sportbike, then don't race, don't market it as one! If your going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk! ========= Dave, I'm glad I'm wrong about what's in they're parking lot (that actually brought a smile to my face)...curious, you have any idea what department(s) the majority of the squids work in??? Interesting point about the tooling cost, hadn't thought of the $$ saved angle...damn shame HD is wasting their investment in Buell (as it seems if those kind of budgetary decisions were made in the XB development). ================= Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
 Dyno Chart 1670cc's air cooled push rod, four valves as done by Yamaha gets you: Max HP : 76.1 HP @ 4,400 RPM Max Torque : 98.0 Lbs/ft @ 3,500 RPM Now, try to package something that BIG in a 52" wheelbase! | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Now, I know that Zipper's, Axtell, et al sell big (100") sportster engines, but again, can these engines make all that horsepower in EPA legal trim? | ||
| Jmartz |
A great low end like our Buells have is principally a function of the stroke. There is no bike out there that comes close. If this design could be complemented with a bit more rpm capabilty we could approach having the best of both worlds. I recently rode a Ducati S4. Not as good in handling as the Buell but if kept in the right gear had as good performance plus a bit more on the top. | ||
| Aaron |
"Aaron, what disdain? Read Jmartz and Jose's comments...I guess they express themselves clearer than I do. (?? as you don't seem to accuse them of the same)" How do you know I was referring to you? When did I mention your name? "I like the *concept* (though I guess now your going to say that I have no idea what that concept is) of Buell...and american (and different) sportbike! The XB is not moving forward in that direction, in my opinion." This makes zero sense to me. You're saying you know Buell's concept and the XB ain't it? Say what? Man, I'm sure Erik will be relieved to know that someone out there knows his concept better than him. Bet he'll be calling you to get it clarified any minute. Or, are you really trying to say that the XB concept is not what you want it to be? Me neither. Unfortunately, for the concept I'm looking for, there aren't a hell of a lot of choices. There are for you, though. "First, I'll deal w/ why I own one...for the most part I like it. I represents (to me) the last of the true Buells, in that it's still got a lot of pilfered HD parts; it was designed and built on a shoestring w/ creative engineering to overcome the lack of funds...truely innovative." Now wait a second. Weren't you the one who was just complaining that Buells don't use a modern enough engine? Aren't there several brands of bike that *do* use a "modern" engine? Why do you choose to buy a Buell and complain that Buell doesn't make what you want instead of just going out and buying from someone who does? That's what I'm struggling to understand. I can't figure out the logic. "Second, I was really hoping that w/ the new bike (now the XB) that was rumored for so long, that it'd be a proper sportbike." Well, first off, who defines "proper"? Isn't that a judgement each of us gets to make indivdually? So basically, you're saying that you're disappointed Buell didn't make a bike that meets your definition of a "proper sportbike". But, why do you care? I mean, there are several fine 1000cc DOHC V-twin sportbikes available. And inline 4's of varying displacements. Why does it have to say "Buell" on the tank for you to go buy it? Who the hell cares what it says on the tank? Like I said, life is too short to be sitting around griping that company X doesn't make what you want. You could wait an *awful* long time with that kind of philosophy. Man, go buy from company Y, and go on with your life! Believe me, that's exactly what I'll do if someone comes out with a bike I like more than a Buell. In a heartbeat. Screw brand loyalty. "Buell had no more excuses, they had the financial backing of HD (which they previously didn't) to develop a proper sportbike." Any chance at all in your mind that they chose to make something a little different? I mean, is it at all possible that they saw several good sportbikes on the market and looked for a way to do it differently? Add something to the market in terms of choices for us consumers, rather than just make something like what someone else does? "Proper" is in the eye of the beholder. If it doesn't suit your needs, go buy one of the others! That's what it's all about, we vote with our wallets. "As I've said numerous times, it's fine if Buell doesn't want to build a real sportbike, then don't race, don't market it as one! If your going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk! " That doesn't sound just a tad bit arrogant to you? I mean, since when do you make the rules? It's almost like you're angry they didn't consult with you first, and you would've told'em what for, because you're so much smarter. Sheesh. And anyway, why do you care if their marketing is all screwed up? I mean, fercrissakes, you think they're screwed up, go buy from someone else! I dunno, Neil, I can't follow any of your logic. It all comes across as just bellyaching that they don't make the bike that you specifically want, and you believe that you define what's proper and what isn't and you know much more about what they should be making and how they should be marketing it than they do. But what I can't figure out is why the hell do you care? Why not buy from someone else? Y'know, I can see bellyaching when you buy a product and it doesn't meet your expectations. Like it breaks too much, or it was misrepresented. You've laid out your money, you have a right to complain if it doesn't meet your expectations. But complaining incessantly because a company doesn't make what you want them to make? Or market it the way you think they should? Does that make sense? Why do they owe it to you to make what you want? Do you get mad at Dell if they don't make the PC you want? No, you go buy from HP! Do you slam Sony for not making a 25" flat screen? No, you go buy from JVC! I mean, fercrissakes, why does any given company have an obligation to make something that suits you specifically? Does the world revolve around you? Personally, I'm extremely thankful that there's a motorcycle company out there who genuinely tries to dream up bikes that no one else makes, and make those, instead of following the herd. It gives me, as a consumer, more choices. AW |
