| Author | Message | ||
     Rangerxb9 |
Hello all, i am new to bikes as whichever bike i get will be my first bike. I was really set on getting a buell and kind of looked around just to see what else is out there. It is down to either a Buell or a Yamaha R6. I know they are kind of opposites, but overall i like th design of both and think both are the nicest looking bikes out there. I am not looking for speed so much, just something to cruise around on, get better mileage, take a few trips, and look good as well. I really like the buell lightning XB9SX (05) that just came out and if i can get a sweet deal on that i more than likely will get that. The dealership here has some new 03 lightnings (XB9S) that are yellow which are nice as well. Is there really any difference between the 03 and 05? I know the body differences between the 2 but overall are there any differences? Do you think this would be a good starter bike? I am in no way going to go nuts pulling wheelies acting like a fool and speeding everywhere. Is it pretty easy to get the hang of? I have a lot of friends to help me so i won't have trouble learning. Any information/advice would be helpful, and should i purchase the race kit if i get the lightning, i have heard it improves engine performance, helps the bike run better, and sounds better to. Thanks and i look forward to seeing some of you on the road! | ||
| Chainsaw |
...so i won't have trouble learning First and foremost I would recommend taking a riders education course. THE BEST WAY to learn to ride, IMO. The education will save your •••, and get you discounted insurance. The Buell gets better mileage than the R6, and "should" cost you less to insure. The '05's have an upgraded belt system (25,000 mile change vs. 15,000) and some other minor changes. The XB should be very easy to get the hang of. I don't know that it would be my first choice for a first bike, but it should keep you happy for years. I don't know much about the R6, so I can't compare that for you. Good Luck! | ||
| Daveinm |
Get the Buell. You'll have a lot more fun on it. You'll love the torque and they're really easy to handle. You'll also get a lot more compliments on the Buell. As for the difference between the '03 and '05. I don't think there are many. The belt is one for sure, but that can be upgraded for about $400. The seat and tires are also different. I would go for the '03 if I were you. They're pretty much identical bikes. The look is mainly the big difference. I know DaveS had a couple of '03's for around $5500 at the end of last year. Give him a call. | ||
| Rangerxb9 |
Who is DaveS and where is he located? I plan on taking some MSF style course but where i live they are booked up until october and i don't want to wait until then so i am trying to see if i can get into the harley Riders Edge program. I know those classes will help and i really want to take them but the availablity might not be there and i don't really want to wait to get a bike...so well see what happens? The dealer here has 03 lightnings w/ like 18 miles on them but they want 7795 for them. Too high? Thanks again! | ||
| Road_thing |
Ranger: What Chainsaw said, take a course for sure. Even if you've done some riding, you'll learn stuff that will help you out. I took the basic MSF course with my son a few years ago, even though I'd been riding over 30 years at the time, and I thought it was well worth the time and money. As far as what bike to buy--if this is your first bike, my advice is to buy something used, as cheap as you can, and ride it for a year while you gain experience and confidence. Then turn it to another newbie and buy what you really want. Which, of course, will be the Buell... rt | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Daves is Dave Stueve at Appleton HD, one of our sponsors. web site is: http://www.h-dappleton.com/index.htm Very knowledgeable and helpful and loyal and hard working and fast riding Buell salesman and evangelist. Being and older, and perhaps wiser, rider, I might suggest that a year on a Buell Blast might be a better and safer and less expensive way for you to get started. I had one when I got back into riding after a very long hiatus, and I enjoyed it a great deal, and felt almost, ( but not quite:-), ready for my '03 XB9S when I got it later in the year. | ||
| Scitz |
If your getting your first bike I would get something smaller than a XB9 or R6. Go find a good used SV650 or something close to that speed and gain some experience. I started riding dirt bikes at 5, scooter at 14, and quit when I was able to drive. When I was 27 I decided to buy a motorcycle and start riding again. I bought a new Honda Shadow Spirit 750. Having riding experience in the past when I first got on the Spirit it scared the crap out or me. I eventually became comfortable with the bike. Needless to say a few months later I went to make a quick stop and hit the front brake to hard and laid the bike down, nice road rash on the whole side of my arm. Get a starter bike and have some patience. Don’t buy something big and new that will be hard to control and dangerous for the in-experienced. Also you might want to get insurance quotes before deciding. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Don't buy a brand new bike for your first ride!!! I agree with Road_thing! Get a bike that is 3 or 4 years old for your first bike. That way you don't have a crunchy brand new bike that you still owe $9,000 on. You will drop your first bike at some point. It may only be in your driveway, but it will go down so why drop a $10,000 bike when your can drop a $3,000 bike? Good luck. | ||
| M1combat |
The R6 would have noticeably more power. It's longer and has less rake. It's probably less stable over mid-corner bumps due to geometry and the intricasies of the gyro's in the wheels and engine. It shouldn't be as flickable due to the rake, but steering input should be lighter at higher speeds (which IMO is bad) due to the design if the brake systems. The R6 will pull away in a straight line by a little bit, but once you get the hang of riding, the Buell should be easier to ride fast through corners and you can pass just about anything coming OUT of a corner, it's then up to them to get back around on the straight... The nice thing about the Buell is that it has power everywhere instead of in a comparatively narrow range of the powerband. I've heard the Buell's are more comfortable for longer trips. I've heard that radial brakes offer more power for the same lever force compared to the ZTL, but I'm quite certain I could faceplant myself at any speed on my 12R anyway... Most of the reviews I've read have RAVED about the handling of the Buell. That's really the strong point of the design. That and the power down low. Personally, I don't think you'll find ANY mode of transportation that sounds as good as a Buell... But that's a pretty subjective subject. Personally, I like the Buell for street use and I think it's a wash for track use between an XB and an IL4 600. Once you get to a track, it's about 85% rider and 15% bike... The XB is easy to ride fast AND is more capable at the limit. I've put 12K miles on my 12R with about 8K of that on my favorite twisty section of road. I can assure you, that on a twisty road, the Buell is EVERY bit as capable as any other bike. Even 1000's. Every time I've had anyone (except for a damn super-moto once...) actually average a higher speed through "The Spars" it's been because they were willing to cross the double yellow and pass when it was dangerous. I generally catch back up once I can get around the car that they just passed on the outside in a right hand turn over the double yellow possibly into on-coming traffic. They get pretty upset when they realize they can't outrun a "Harley"  . The list... Ducati 748/9 (a few of them) Aprilia Mille (a couple of them) Yamaha R1 ('02) MANY R6's, GSXR6's etc... TL-1000 (one of one) SV-1000 (one of one) MANY SV-650's Porsche 911T (VERY fast on the straights...) Turbo'd Miata (VERY fast through the turns, but he was crossing AND losing distance by a good margin) Dodge Viper (A "squirter" driver, but the car sounded VERY nice) Ferrari 308 GTS (Yeah... Whatever. Sounded good though) An entire Corvette convention... I don't even count touring bikes, although some of them hual some •••... | ||
| Whodom |
Ranger, another thought is to start out with an inexpensive used bike. I KNOW how it feels to want to go out and buy that first new bike, but you may save yourself a lot of money and grief by buying used to start off with. Several older, wiser bikers gave me this advice when I started riding 3 years ago, and I'm glad I took it before I got my first Buell. You can pick up a decent, mid-sized (~500 cc) UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) in good shape for less than $2000. You might even find a used Blast for that price by now. Take the MSF beginners course, get your license, buy the cheap bike, and ride it for 6 months. It'll help you learn exactly what kind of riding you like to do and what kind of bike you really want. If you drop it (as you may do when you're learning) it's no big deal. If you find out motorcycling really isn't for you, you can sell the used bike for about what you paid for it. If you buy a brand-new bike and try to unload it 6 months or a year from now, you will be out of several thousand dollars. If you find that you REALLY like motorcycling (and I hope you will), when you do get ready to move up, you can sell your used bike for what you paid for it and buy that Buell. | ||
| M1combat |
Oh, and I agree... Get a used bike for your first bike. I've been riding all my life and I dropped my shiny new XB12R in a parking lot. I was slowing in a right hand turn when the front wheel hit a very small patch of oil. Dropped like a rock. One more nice thing about Buell's... Most of the parts that can break in a slow fall are very inexpensive compared to the other brands. Actually, just about all of the parts are pretty inexpensive... The fairing on an R6 is NOT inexpensive and the first time you drop it, it will cost quite a bit. My drop cost me about $30 for a new peg, front and rear brake lever. | ||
| Fran_dog |
Take a MSF beginners class or Riders Edge class. Then get something small to learn on first. A Buell Blast is small and doesn't have a lot of power, but that's what makes it a great bike to learn on before getting a larger bike with more power. Don't get in over your head. You can get into trouble pretty fast. Do yourself a favor and get some experience riding before you get that XB. | ||
| Daveinm |
Buy the XB. It was my first bike. I'm not saying any of these guys are wrong, nor do I want to start another discussion about first time riders . This is just my opinion. Yeah, you might drop it and get it a bit banged up, but it's a great bike. You could drop any bike you get, experienced rider or not. The only bike I've almost dropped, besides dirt bikes, was my Sportster, at it was cause the kickstand flipped up on me and I went to put it down. Yes, absolutely take the course. I never did, but I also rode dirt bikes pretty hard back in high school. Get this book...Total Control...http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0760314039/qid=1112368495/sr=2-2/ref=pd_b bs_b_2_2/104-7169056-6935901 Regardless, buy a bike that's gonna make you happy. Then go buy a good helmet, gloves, and jacket. I would have been miserable if I had bought a starter bike. | ||
| M1combat |
Speaking of which Whodom... I know where an '02 Blast can be bought for ~2500. | ||
| Scitz |
It's also a good idea to buy a used bike and learn how to perform your own maintenance. When I bought my new bike I was kind of uncomfortable on it because I was so afraid of scratching it. After I wrecked and fixed it myself I enjoyed riding it a lot more. There is nothing more fun then tuning your bike and then going for a ride to see if it makes a difference. Buy used and then use the money you save to make the biker faster as you learn to ride. The Blast is cool because if you search around there is a good amount of after market performance parts. I have a 1990 Honda NS 50, 6 speed 50cc, I bought for a few hundred dollars and is the most fun out of all the motorcycles I've ever ridden. I can pop wheelies and race around empty parking lots, dragging the knees, with no problems. Sometimes it's more enjoyable to have the smaller bike that is a sleeper but stand out in a crowd. | ||
| M1combat |
Here's one thing... Imaging crashing at 75MPH on a highway... Pause the daydream just as you're about to be dashed against the pavement... Now... What would you spend on good gear at THAT moment... OK, now go spend that much on good gear (or at least the BEST you can afford). | ||
| Reepicheep |
The R6 is an amazing street legal track bike, hard to find any fault with it for displacement limited track usage. That is what it was engineered to do, and they made it street legal, and did a VERY impressive job. The goals of the Buell engineers were different. They set out to create a sport oriented street bike that is as much "fun" as possible. So the R6 has a seating position that gets your weight as far forward and as low as possible to mazimize lap times. The problem is, this riding position is flat out annoying when you are riding to work or going to the grocery store. Or even more importantly, it's even less "optimal" when you are trying to see over the top of that minivan in front of you to notice that there is a chewed up alminum ladder in about 6 pieces in your lane up ahead. The engine architecture is another good way to see the differences. The R6 gets an astounding amount of power out of a 600 cc engine. To do this, they have overhead cams, water cooling, very oversquare piston geometry, and lots of other voodoo. For races where the rules say "600cc or less", thats the way to go. But on the street, they don't limit road access by displacement, so Buell gets it's power by additional displacement from a simpler engine. No water cooling, no overhead cams and cam chains and no need to adjust valves. They kept the stroke longer, which limits peak power, but gives you a more linear power curve at lower RPMS. Racers keep engines near redline all the time, its where *any* engine makes the most power. But riding your bike at 14,000 RPM for 30 minutes in order to have adequete power at your dispsoal just to go to work gets annoying as hell. Another example are the front brakes. Tracks are typically smooth, clean, and well prepared relative your typical street experience. Brakes can only brake if the tire touches the ground. The amount of weight not supported by suspension (unsprung weight) will directly effect the amount of time the tire does not have weight on it while braking over bumpy surfaces. The Buells have a single outside perimiter rotor, which lowers the weight of the front wheel by some absurd factor. When you brake over bumps or uneven surfaces (even little ones), the Buell front wheel assembly will spend a lot more time in solid contact with the ground, and do a LOT more braking. The race replicas have two traditional disks, which make the unsprung front weigh *pounds* more then the XB front. They probably have ultimately more surface area on the rotors, so if you are going 30mph to 100mph to 20mph to 80mph to 40mph once every 1 minute 38 seconds on a prepared smooth surface with corner workers at every turn ready to wave a flag if anything would interrupt the normal racing line, the dual rotor setup might have a slight advantage. There are lots of other things along those lines. The race replicas are bikes that are designed for the needs of the track, that can be used on the street. The Buells are (so far) bikes that are designed for the street, that can be used on the track. Both are excellent bikes, pick the one that best meets your needs! I just bought an XB9SX last fall, it's my third bike, and I could not be happier with the thing. | ||
| Rangerxb9 |
Thanks for all the tips and information i really appreciate. I am going to wait to see if i can find any good used deals and i'll let you guys know what happens, any other information is appreciated and i look forward to maybe seeing some people on the roads (won't be for awhile till i get some more experience, parking lots and my neighboorhood will be most of time till i get used to things) thanks again! | ||
| Brucelee |
For a first bike, no question a XB9s over the Yammie. Simply easier to do everything on. Go slow. Learn well, ride to live. Good luck. | ||
| Rangerxb9 |
Yea i don't need a track bike or a race bike so that is kind of why i am staying away from the Jap race bikes. Just something to cruise for work and in the summer and to save me some money at the tank (big ••• truck gets about 10 MPG) and also just for a fun toy. I really like the look of the buell and it has a lot of advantages. This forum is great and i can't believe all the tips and pointers i have gotten. Thanks all for the information and i do plan on spending at least 1000 on gear w/ helmet and jacket, and pants. I know about proper protection. I haev my permit so i can ride and i have been riding a bit and i do have a little dirt bike experience...well see what happens and what i get. Thanks again | ||
| Team |
They are Both Very nice bikes, I personally don't think a 600 is too Big for a starter bike. I would recommend the MSF rider class. If you are going for a look at me,cool factor I would definitely get a buell, If you are going to be riding with a passenger, I would have her sit on both, but she would probably like the R6 better, there's more butt space on the R6. Good Luck, The decision is yours, But like I said for Cool Factor Buell, To be a dime a dozen R6. | ||
| M1combat |
The VERY low amount of un-sprung mass also helps a great deal at high lean angles over bumps or lines/cracks in the road. | ||
| Xring |
The Yamaha FZ6 would make a better beginner's bike than the R6. The Buell would be better yet. Ideally, I think learning to ride in the dirt is the best plan. Either on a pure dirt bike or a street/trail bike. Not convenient for everyone, though. I've had several bikes and this XB9S is the most pleasant one. In a strange way, it is like a big dirt bike. No such thing as too much information when you're learning to ride; now is the time to get the Total Control book or a Twist of the Wrist, in addition to safety courses. Good luck, Bill | ||
| Taxman |
at the same time that i got my xb9r my friend got a yamaha 600. we we're both brand new to the riding scene and had never been on a bike at all. we both took a rider safety course and got our licenses together. we seem to have progressed at the same learning curve and able to do what we want on our bikes. neither of us really go full out like you would on a track, we're not that capable yet. i would say that the bottom line is get the bike that you feel comfortable on and most importantly the one that you like to look at. i know that looks dont play much importance when performance is talked about but in my opinion my bike needs to be the best looking in my eyes. i went with a buell. my friend says it looks like a grasshopper and sounds like a sick lawn mower. i tell him that he's just another farmer riding the same sheep as everyone else. its all up to what you want to ride. most people never take there bike to its limit, so comparing limits is silly. if you like the R6 get that, if you like the buell get that. or get the one that is the best deal. its just personal opinion anyway. if you do get the buell, welcome to the club. if not i'll still ride with ya. either way i hope your happy with your decision. | ||
| Daves |
Could I interest you in a trip to Wisconsin?  1-866-757-1651 ask for Dave in the sales dept. | ||
| Geoffg |
Ranger, as a former motorcycle instructor, I'd strongly urge you to first take a course, then buy a smaller displacement used bike for at least a few months. Both the XB9R and R6 are pretty cool bikes, but I don't think either one is gonna be the best one to learn on. Maybe a GS500 or SV650, tops. Sure, lots of guys start on 600 supersports or even literbikes, but just because lots of guys do it does not make it a smart thing to do. The likelihood of dropping your first bike is very high (often just stupid slow stuff, like stopping at a stop sign). You're better to take that chance on a used bike--then, next season, you can usually sell your "learner" bike for nearly what you paid for it, and get your next bike (remember, there's always a "next" bike!). | ||
| Taxman |
one other thing. if you do get the buell. and its your first bike. i can't stress enough how carefull you need to be on the throttle. you can get yourself into a lot of trouble if you dont respect what your riding. for any motorcycle i guess. i've only ever ridden on my buell though. | ||
| Jlnance |
Hi Ryan, Welcome to Badweb. I think you will like it here. There are a lot of very helpful and quite friendly folks on this site. I have no experience with the R6, so I can't help you much there. But I do have some other comments that I'd like to make. I hope you don't mind. First I notice that you are in the military. The military requires that you take the MSF course before operating a motorcycle, even if you are off duty and off post. Here is some information about that: http://safety.army.mil/Motorcycle_Safety.htm http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/articles/motorcyclesafety.htm But even if they didn't, I would encourage you to do it anyway. Riding a motorcycle is significantly different from riding a bicycle. In particular, the brakes must be operated within certain constraints or you will drop the bike. It is not difficult to learn how to do it correctly, but if you don't take the class, then the only way you have to learn is to do it wrong, crash, and add whatever you did to the list of things not to do again. That is an expensive and painful way to figure stuff out. That is also why people are recommending that you get a dirt bike. The trial and error stuff is easier on you and your wallet in the dirt. If you take the class, they will show you how to do this stuff and then watch you as you practice to make sure you do it right. It is a much better way to learn, AND IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE YOU DROP _THEIR_ BIKE. I am always impressed by the number of people who come out of the MSF classes saying "I didn't expect to learn anything because I have been riding 30 years, but I was wrong." You mentioned that all the community college MSF classes were full but you might be able to get into a Riders Edge class. Do it if you can. Riders Edge is essentially the MSF class, it costs a bit more around here, but the class sizes are also smaller, which is nice. There are a few ways to get some of the money back. If you buy a new bike from the dealer where you took the class, they will usually give you your tuition back. Also, you can join BRAG, the Buell Riders Adventure Group, for $40, and they will give you $50 back if you take the class: http://www.buell.com/en_us/brag/benefits/seekinvolvement_saferider.asp Finally, the XB is a really powerful bike, and I suspect the R6 is as well. You might want to start out with something where you wont kill yourself if you are jerky with the throttle or pop the clutch. I like the advise that some other have given you. Get a cheap small used bike. Learn to ride on it, then get something more powerful if you want. You can sell that first bike for about what you paid for it. If you take the Riders Edge class, you will be using the Buell Blast to learn on. I bought one to be my first bike and it has been an excellent bike to learn on (I'm still alive). I actually like it so much that I am keeping it even though I now have another larger bike as well. You can pick one up on ebay for a little less than $2000. You might want to consider it. Hope this was helpful. Welcome again to Badweb. | ||
| Kenny |
bought a 05xb12s an had wreck with only 600 miles on bike hurts pride more than wallet.I WOULD also suggest something used also. | ||
| Diablobrian |
We are fortunate to live in a time when it is actually hard to go to a dealership and buy a BAD new bike. reliability, fit and finish are at all time highs. I would caution anyone looking for a bike to start on that the current 600 class sport bikes all carry in excess of 100 hp at the rear wheel. They are not beginner bikes. If you are stuck on getting a new bike look at a blast, gs500, zx500, or sv650. The xb9's don't really fit the beginner profile IMO. I would strongly suggest a used "naked" bike. Move up to your "ideal" bike after you get some miles (not to mention low speed tip-overs)and a riders training course under your belt. I know that no one wants to hear this, I sure didn't, but it really is the best course of action. Good Luck! |
