| Author | Message | ||
     Sleeper_777 |
Attending Rider's Edge/MSF class, the instructor stressed covering the clutch at all times and I understand the teaching. However, I find keeping my fingers on the clutch and my hand open on the grip causes me not to feel complete control, mostly when riding hilly/curving roads. I always catch my left hand not covering clutch, but instead holding the grip firmly. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this procedure? Regards | ||
| Tpoppa |
keep 2 fingers on the clutch... | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
When I took my class, they stressed not to cover any controls unless entering a possible situation or an intersection. Maybe they've changed the course outline. I understand what you mean though. | ||
| Lovematt |
I raced BMX for a while and was taught to always keep a finger or two on the levers. When I started riding dirt bikes I was in the same boat as Sleeper. However I learned to use my legs more and still keep 2 fingers on the clutch. I still thank my BMX coach and later my wrestling coach both of whom stressed hand strength by actually working them out. I don't have any problem with this at all in that I can start pulling in the clutch in with 2 fingers and assist with a 3rd as it gets closer to the grip. As for the front brake, one finger works fine for my purposes. I will say that using your legs and lower back more will help with this problem as well as improve other areas of your riding (not putting so much weight on the bars making controlling the bike more predictable). | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Good points that I asked about in class. I was taught clutch control was all fingers or no fingers method, explaining that it would take longest to react in a situation when you had no fingers on the clutch, and take nearly as long to react with only a few fingers on the clutch. I still prefer complete hand grip and use clutch as necessary, not covering it all the time. Any Rider's Edge/MSF trainers in here please speak up. I am not trying to start a war, just want to know a safe, proven methodology for clutching as I don't agree whole heartedly with the RE/MSF teaching on this particular.} | ||
| Two_buells |
Cover Both.....  | ||
| Xbolt12 |
"keep 2 fingers on the clutch.." +1 xbolt12 | ||
| Stealthxb |
Don't cover either... if you need it, grab a handful! grabbing with less than a full hand will just get your fingers broke. | ||
| Dale |
Shift with two fingers and brake with two fingers. Race school trumps MSC. | ||
| Rocket_man |
Do whatever works for you and makes you comfortable on your bike. If you are comfortable you will ride better. | ||
| Sarodude |
It's likely that the purpose of covering the clutch is mainly to deal with masses of unevenly skilled beginners in a more sane manner... * You can always say "squeeze both hands" If a beginner is lazy about rolling off the throttle, declutching or having quicker access to the clutch can certainly be a lawsuit saver. Also, the MSF doesn't, in my opinion, teach braking but STOPPING. The whole concept of de-clutching the driveline is fine if you have only the intent of coming to a full stop. If you're: * rolling * gonna need to keep rolling * do the massive downshifts the MSF is teaching then think about how much fun you'll have with a motor down near idle and a bike moving 30 - 45 mph and leaned over in an evasive maneuver while trying to re-engage the drive... Also consider that the MSF doesn't teach anything about matching revs........... Same goes with the way they teach dealing with rear wheel lockup. The assumption again is that you will ONLY be coming to a complete stop. I'm not knocking the MSF or the fine MSF instructors we have on thie board. All things considered, it's a VERY GOOD THING. However, sometimes I feel too much is conceded to the lowest common denominator. Some folks should not be motorcyclists. Handicapping proper vehicle control instruction for their sake is questionable in my opinion. -Saro | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Fine points made. It also shows the individuality of each person's riding skills and/or comfort level. Thanks for the feedback. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Two fingers on the clutch? They obviously do not ride Buells. | ||
| Henrik |
Two fingers on both. If your brake lever comes to the grip or would even pinch the remaining finger, you desperately need to bleed and get the air out of your front brake lines. No need to pull the clutch lever to the grip either - as long as you're moving. You only need to pull the lever until the clutch disengages - where that is will depend on your clutch adjustment. Henrik | ||
| Lovematt |
I ride a Buell and 2 fingers is all I need to get the clutch all the way to the grip if I have to. Of course I actually work out my hands with a DynaBee and one of those spring handgrip deals. | ||
| Two_buells |
I need to revise my "cover Both picture" In the above picture I in my cornering mode. one finger on each lever, trail braking (some throttle, front and rear brake and clutch to raise the rev's) during my normal street riding I have two fingers on each lever for shifting and to be ready for anything. | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Two_buells, did you learn this from experience, race school, trial and error or battletrax? I'm looking to improve upon my skills...anyone chime in here...is the MSF intermediate class good or should I be shooting for a "race school"? I'm comfortable on public highways, but only raced dirtbikes (in another lifetime). Not looking to race, as I stated earlier, just improve skill set. | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
There's no bright rule - that's what I keep hearing - it's always whatever works for you best. | ||
| 12bolt |
MSF teaches you that because they don't wont to get run over by some newbie that forgets how to stop! | ||
| U4euh |
Keeping at least one finger on each gives you an unconscious advantage in an emergency situation. You don't have to freak and maybe grab too much of one and not find the other. IMO if you have to tightly hold on to the grips something else might be going wrong. | ||
| Two_buells |
Sleeper 777, My skill set came from 10 years of Motocross racing and 6 years of BattleTrax. I'm not a track day or race school guy, I'm just someone who's rode for 30 years and picked up some good and bad habits...... Just like DCmortacoil said, "There's no bright rule - it's always whatever works for you best" | ||
| Two_buells |
Sleeper 777, any Race school, track day, MSF course or BattleTrax will improve your skill set. Coming from a dirt bike backround really helped me. | ||
| Henrik |
Like Mike said - anything that makes you think about and possibly revise what you're doing for something better will improve your riding. Personally, I've been riding since 1980, and not until 1998 when I started doing track days did my riding skills improve. Rather than 18 years of riding experience I had 18 x 1 year of experience ... if that makes sense. I just heard about a newcomer in the rider training game; Lee Parks, rider, racer, used to be editor of MCN, has started his own riding school: http://www.leeparksdesign.com/miscpage_002.asp?sid=08907129X3K1K2005J11I53I34JAM Q542R0 No personal experience with the school, but we all know how much you can learn from some parking lot practice. Henrik | ||
| Lpowel02 |
i think you'll find that not only does covering the brake and clutch with a finger or two help reaction time should you need it...but it will also prevent you from gripping the bars too tightly, something many new riders do. By relaxing your grip a little, you'll be less stiff, more relaxed, able to react better and you won't tire as quickly Lee Parks has a book called Total Control...a very good read for improving skills | ||
| Buelliedan |
Ok, I'm an MSF instructor and yes we tell you to cover the clutch at all times. But we also DO NOT allow them to cover the front brake. Why? Beacuse as has already been said this is for new riders who have limited skills. We want the student in an emergency situation to just squeeze the clutch in and coast to a stop if need be. If they freak out and grab the front brake they fall down and go boom! Grab the clutch, whats the worst that can happen? But realize this is for the range exercises we are teaching and on the second day we do not stress covering the clutch. This is not a good method for street riding as your hands will get tired. But we still do recommend that as you approach intersections or are in heavy traffic you cover both controls to give you that little bit of extra time saved in case you need to stop FAST!! | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Thanks Buelliedan, I appreciate the information. BTW, I took the RE version of MSF, do you happen to know if the MSF intermediate class is corresponding to the RE/Advanced technique class? | ||
| Buelliedan |
I am not sure what RE is. Here in TX we teach Basic Rider Course (BRC) and Experienced Rider Course (ERC) | ||
| Lpd22 |
I find myself covering both the brake and clutch with two fingers. A habit I have picked up from motocross. Like everyone says "do what is comfortable". And I find myself comfortable covering both the clutch and brake with two fingers. It is really a individual preference in how you like to ride. | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Buelliedan, Sorry, RE (Rider's Edge) is Harley's spin on the MSF Basic Course. It is MSF sanctioned. RE Advanced is equivalent to MSF ERC. A local college teaches ERC on weekends, it's less expensive than the RE Advanced, so I'm considering it instead of RE Advanced. There are no motorcycle race schools nearby, I'd have to travel at least 300 miles. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Ah Riders Edge! The Experienced riders course is the same thing as thier Advanced course. Both are good things. much of what will be taught it a review of what you learned in the basic course with a little more emphasis on countersteering and braking control. The big difference is that you do it on your own bike. There is a huge difference doing the box on a 125 compared to a 900 lb Harley or Goldwing!! | ||
| Jarhead |
I shift and brake with 2 fingers on my buell. Cover the clutch with two and cover the brake with 2 when appropriate, not 100% of the time. This is leftover from motocross as a kid. I even cover the clutch with 2 on my hardtail harley, the difference is shifting requires a full hand with that #$%^ clutch | ||
| Trolldaddi |
I'm friends with a MSF instructor and he told me to cover the clutch in class for the same reasons Buelliedan indicated. | ||
| Surveyor |
I have always covered both brake and clutch. The brake for obvious reasons, the clutch through habit long and hard learned riding and racing two strokes....not sure the latter applies when riding my XB9R though |
