| Author | Message | ||
     Tab22092 |
Hello all, So i am the proud new owner of an 09 1125CR. Love the bike, but already hating the amount of time it spends in the shed lol. So the other day i took it out and low and behold i get a battery light the second i turn the key into the on position. Start it up, and it goes away. All is well right? Wrong. After a short ride, battery and CEL light come on again. I make it home with about 11.2 volts left on the battery. I pull the battery and put in on a charger for a bit. I put it back into the bike and begin the stator test. Cold, Upon idle, it looks like it was producing 3.1 volts, and 15 at rev (3.5k) then, things began to change as it warmed up. Warm, at idle, i got mixed readings anywhere from 21-23. And at rev about 40. I button everything back up and watch the battery level via the display. At idle, it was draining, but at rev, it was charging. I decide to take it out on a short ride. All is going well, and then bam. It happens again! So now the bike sits in the shed while i contemplate how much money i’m going to have to throw at it. I should mention also that the first few rides, i have incurred a cut out in 3rd gear under load. The bike will fall flat on its face halfway up the tach if you lean into it. So, i need guidance from the buell gods. From my research, it looks like i will need ricks stator, the EBR rotor, and a new regulator. Is that all? I don’t want this to ever happen again, so i want to make sure i fix it the first go around. I’m lucky i got the bike when i did. Previous owner was jump starting it with a dead battery everytime he rode it and cut the battery in half when trying to replace it because he couldn’t get it out... praying he didn’t destroy anything else. Thanks in advance everyone. | ||
| Panshovevo |
Sounds like you still have the ‘Harley Fix’ in the charging harness, and the noise reduction solenoid is still hooked up to your carb linkage. You can use the Google link above to find lots of info on both subjects on the forum. If you get lost, and no one else jumps in to help out, I’ll go into more detail tomorrow. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The Buell doesn't have a carb. The solenoid is connected to the throttle body. ANd get rid of it ASAP. It can get you killed. | ||
| Tab22092 |
How can you tell it’s got the harley fix on it just from the description? I’m not even sure what to look for truthfully. Would that cause the voltage inconsistency or the cut outs? | ||
| Tab22092 |
So, i performed a harley fix delete. Charged the battery, and turned her over. System was at 13.8V. Ran until warm. Got down to 12.9 but did not drop below that while idling. Shut it down. Get my helmet and pack to go for a ride, notice a hard start. Put battery monotoring on and notice it dropping quite quickly. Let bike idle, dropped down to 11.8 when light and cel came on. Revved up to increase voltage to no avail. Back in the shed it goes. | ||
| Willmrx |
http://www.directcycleparts.com/apparel-helmets-ve ndor-catalogs-drag-specialties-2018-fatbook-electr ical-ricks-electric-ricks-motorsport-electric-026h -stator-buell-p-75855.html?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid =EAIaIQobChMIirPb2MTm4QIVPyCtBh3KWgtuEAkYDCABEgIlS PD_BwE https://www.roadstercycle.com/#SH847_SERIES_RR_KIT S_ARE_NOW_AVAILABLE_ Here are the two parts you need to keep your bike from doing anymore shed time! Not cheap though. | ||
| Joe7bros |
First thing to do is check stator output; search the forum for the procedure. Then, check out "Stator/Voltage Regulator/Charging System subforum" lots of info and solutions on this issue. If your stator is working properly, you might want to replace the voltage regulator before doing anything else; if the stator is bad, you should replace the VR regardless, as it is a shunt type unit and the series VRs are much better at controlling charging and excess heat | ||
| Tab22092 |
Will, thank you for the links! Just called jack and he is an awesome guy. Very helpful. Gonna order up the kit he has as well as the stator from that other link you posted. Awesome price for that! And joe l, i already did the stator test. My results are posted up a little higher, tell me what you think. Thanks! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Good advice. So is it possible to "save" the stator by replacing the VR? Is this a long term fix? Also, it's been so long. What exactly was the "Harley fix"? I think I still have that on my '09 bike. | ||
| Willmrx |
http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/ 832807.html?1530890103 This is a link to the Harley fix, with photos. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
The only real fix is getting the rotor modified to cool the stator better. Changing the stator and VR without doing the rotor mod will eventually burn the stator again. http://www.erikbuellracing.net/store/models/1125r/2009-2010-charging-system-rotor-modification.html (Message edited by terrys1980 on April 23, 2019) | ||
| Willmrx |
The only bummer of the true long term fix is, it's a lot $. I am betting on the S847 to extend the life of the stock stator. I did both bikes, new stators and VR. So I will be able to see if they last any longer, I have my fingers crossed. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
SO are the 2008s immune from this stator issue? | ||
| Joe7bros |
Backstory on the stator; someone correct me if I'm wrong: the 2008s did NOT have a problem, lower output stator; for 2009 and 2010, the story is Harley insisted on the higher output stator, but did not consider increased heat. So, while the general consensus is to replace the VR, the real culprit is the Ducati shunt type VR: "In the shunt voltage regulator the output DC voltage is constant. In the series voltage regulator the output DC voltages is not constant. Shunt voltage regulator is connected in shunt with the load. Series voltages regulator is connected in series with the load" and here "a series type regulator allows current to flow from the alternator/generator, until the limit is reached and it switches off the semiconductors. the load on the alternator coils is reduced, less heat is evolved. they only draw as much current from the alternator as required. they are fairly hard to design. a shunt type regulator allows current to reach a certain limit, then shunts or shorts the output to ground. this places a high load on the alternator windings, and the excess power is leaked away as heat. lots of heat". In my case, the stator tested within range for voltage and continuity. I replaced the VR with a Shindengen S847(?) and never had another electrical problem for the last 2 years I owned the bike | ||
| Willmrx |
You are 100% correct! I all my chips are on the SH847!  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Interesting. I wonder if putting the SH847 on a 2008 would have any benefits? It's not terribly expensive and I need a new farkle to add to the bike. Thoughts? | ||
| Terrys1980 |
The shunt type regulator does not impose such negative effects on the stator as everyone might seem to think. It does not put 100% load on the stator at all times, however it shunts 100% of the excessive load to ground. The shunt type is still the best option when the circuit is properly designed due to constant voltage. It is better for the battery. A series regulator will produce a lot of heat especially once the voltage gets above 14.0V. It should be relocated out from under the seat for that reason. You should at least inspect the stator before changing to the series to ensure there isn't any serious signs of previous overheating that may end up causing issues later. | ||
| Tab22092 |
Just ordered up the stator from Direct Cycle Parts. By far the best price around. Next will be the SH847 kit from Jack and then finally the rotor. Just trying to spread out the cost a little bit. Hopefully will have everything squared away in about a month or two. Man, i could have gotten a sweet exhaust with this money if the bike wasn't such a big POS lol | ||
| Joe7bros |
Tab, if your stator tests good, you should have started with the VR | ||
| Tab22092 |
Joe, I believe the stator is toast. I’ll pulled the harness and did the test. It was putting out 3.1 volts at idle and 15.7 volts at rev (cold) then it was putting out 20-23 volts at idle and 40 volts at rev (warm) then, after riding for a bit it would stop charging. To me it sounds like the stator is on its last legs, and the VR could be shot too. Figured fix the whole thing while i’m in there and be done with it. I’m not into getting stranded | ||
| Stevel |
Terry, In a shunt system, the stator is always at 100% output. This is because the excitation of the stator coils is provided by the permanent magnets in the spinning rotor and the shunt regulator then dumps the excess energy to ground. This is as opposed to an automotive type alternator that uses an electromagnet in the spinning rotor. Where the excitation current is provided by the VR through the slip rings. In a series system, the connection between the stator coils passes through switching transistors after the rectifiers. The purpose of these transistors is to limit the duty cycle of the stator coil to match the power required for the system. This method of control does not limit the voltage or the peak current of the stator coil, but it does limit the average power over time. This is much more efficient than a shunt system , which robs engine torque from the rear wheel unnecessarily and generating unnecessary heat. Yes, this switching action does create switching noise, but because the battery is one very big capacitor, it readily absorbs these impulses. The same system is commonly used to control the speed of DC motors such as in the fuel pump motor. This control is provided by the ECU to control fuel line pressure to the injectors. The technique is called PWM (pulse width modulation) (Message edited by steve-l on April 29, 2019) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Steve, are you saying a series VR will allow more HP from the motor? Is this from reducing heat in the stator and by extension the motor? Please elaborate. | ||
| Shoggin |
I think Steve is saying the shunt-style VR is working 100% all the time, dumping the extra voltage to ground, and the other style only works as hard as the battery demands. He wants the VR to work less, freeing up HP. He may be right, but I doubt it's a measurable difference. If you use a car's alternator as a bad example (internally regulated, MOSFET switched, non- shunt style) it's accepted that it needs about 2HP to run at 100%. But thats at 150 AMP output. *So (the bad math and poor example continues lol) if a Buell charging system puts out 1/10th of that output (15-ish amps?), it would need 1/10th of the power to run it. Point 2HP at 100% output. He's saying you could be saving a load percentage of .2hp. *the figures aren't exact, but close enough to get the point  } | ||
| Fresnobuell |
CAll me stupid because I don't understand alot of this stuff. So the load on the motor from the stator can vary depending on the output, which is controlled by the voltage regulator? With the stock VR, the stator is putting out 100% all the time. With a series VR, the stator is not putting out 100% all the time which lowers operating temps and frees up a wee bit of HP? Is this close? | ||
| Terrys1980 |
The stator puts out the same amount of power no matter what is connected to it because the magnetic field is fixed. The VR determines where the power is used. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
This what I thought. I don't understand how the VR can use or not use HP. What am I missing here? | ||
| Joe7bros |
Parasitic loss | ||
| Shoggin |
The VR isn't costing the percentage of point2hp. The drag from producing electricity is: When the engine is running, the stator is just spinning it's magnets in the 3 coils of wires. Nothings happening unless theres a draw. The draw is when the VR needs electricity to power stuff, making the stator harder to spin. So the VR isn't causing a drag per say, it is telling the stator too. It's a mechanical drag on the engine. When a series-VR senses a demand to charge the battery or run the headlights, it increases the field of the stator to get that voltage, making the stator harder to spin than no draw at all. With a shunt style VR, the stator is running "full-field" making as much voltage a possible all the time, (stator hard to spin all the time) and the VR is controlling the amount to the headlights and battery by shunting the extra voltage produced, to ground. Over-simplification warning... But remember we are talking at MOST about .2HP and saving a percentage of point 2hp. (Message edited by shoggin on April 29, 2019) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So a series VR will effectively turn the stator on or off based on the electrical needs of the bike at the time? | ||
| Shoggin |
Not really 'on' and 'off'. More like fluctuate. But yes, a series VR will only equal the supply with the demand. Infinitesimally small change in drag to measure. |
