| Author | Message | ||
     Harry99 |
I'm looking for a charging system rotor with the oil port. Does anyone have one or have an idea where I can get one? Thanks. | ||
| Mope |
I have 1190 oil jetted rotors, but you'd need to have an 1190 or 2008 1125 stator to go with it. | ||
| Araignee |
EBR still has them. http://www.erikbuellracing.net/store/models/1125r. html I would also strongly recommend an SH847 voltage regulator/rectifier. The kit is very complete and has both written instructions and a video. Plus you don't have to open the stator side of the engine, which requires gaskets, a heat gun or blowtorch to melt the hi-temp threadlocker on the rotor nut, possibly a new rotor nut, a crank locking tool, a torque wrench that allows you to apply 290 ft/lbs of torque, etc. However, if your machine is high mileage or has the HD bandaid harness or is having charging system problems due to excess heat, you should test your stator and be prepared to replace it. The world's best VR won't help a fired stator. http://roadstercycle.com/#SH847_SERIES_RR_KITS_ARE _NOW_AVAILABLE_ If you are short on funds, the SH847 is the best bet. It changes the VR from shunt to series operation, which makes the VR and the stator run much cooler. You can probably get away with just an SH847 if your bike is low mileage and/or your stator tests OK, but if you just do the rotor mod and keep the OEM VR, you might still have problems. google on this forum is your friend... | ||
| Harry99 |
Mope, thanks for the offer but I think I'll go with the one from EBR. Araignee, Thanks for the link to the repaired rotor. I talked to someone from EBR a couple months ago and the said they were in bankruptcy and a liquidator had their parts. When I contacted LAP they want you to buy $2000 dollars in parts before they will sell you any. I just spoke to ERB and I will be able to get a new rotor. My stator is toast and they also suggested to get a OE stator from Harley instead of a Ricks stator. Do you have an opinion on that advice from EBR? My bike only has 3500 miles. | ||
| Bubba_ |
One other option.. - Have a machinist place the oil jet in your current rotor. It's doable, but has to be done properly | ||
| Araignee |
Harry, there have been a few reports of Rick's stators failing. This might be a result of just replacing the stator and not the OEM V/R, or of just hoping the rotor mod will do the job. Others have also said the Rick's part is working just fine for them. To their credit, Rick's does offer a warranty for their stator. Rick's claim that the stators fail because they don't have enough contact with oil addresses only part of the problem. The stator typically overheats because it is being asked to deliver maximum charge that is modulated by being shunted to ground by the OEM V/R, which has no cooling fins to help dissipate heat. In the case of the H-D bandaid, they try to short part of the windings to ground with a cheap relay that has a tendency to fail. Both these approaches increase heat. A series V/R only draws the current needed, keeping the stator cooler. An EBR rotor mod doesn't solve the OEM V/R problem, and neither did the H-D bandaid harness. Both these tactics mitigate the problem with varying degrees of success, but they treat the symptoms, not the root cause, which is a cheap shunt-type OEM V/R with a history of contributing to charging problems in many of the makes of bikes in which it is used. There have been reports on the forum of stock stators (and rotors) shedding chunks of epoxy, some clearly due to a burnt and dying stator. Some rotors/stators on the 2008 1125R, which had a lower charging output and generated less heat, also shed bits of epoxy. If you read the descriptions/advertising copy on Rick's website, you notice that they barely mention that the OEM V/R (and by extension all other shunt-type V/Rs) are a primary cause of the stator overheating and failing. Switch to a good series-type V/R -one rated to at least 40amps or higher, with adequate cooling fin surface area, a metallic backing plate to facilitate good ground and heat-sink contact, robust wiring, and a circuit breaker or inline fuse in the power supply. Install it where it gets good airflow for cooling without getting beaten to death with road debris, and you will have eliminated most of the overheating problem. Trained engineers who post on this site such as stevel and others have documented these issues extensively (google on this forum), so do the research before you make your choice. A bike with 3500 miles that toasted it's stator is a bummer, but given H-D's contributions to the problem with their half-assed fix, I'm hesitant to recommend their stator. It could well be just another part sourced to the lowest bidder. On the other hand, you have EBR in a similar situation as Rick's, both offering an improved part that fixes the symptoms. Both mods can certainly improve the situation, and it's good that both have made the effort. If you really want to attack the problem, you might go for an SH847 V/R(rated to 50amps), an EBR rotor mod, and a Rick's stator. I'd agree with bubba that you can get a rotor modded if you have a good machinist and the correct specifications for the work. On the other hand, EBR's price for the exchange is reasonable, and the service and turn-around time is good. On my 2009 1125R, I have the SH847 mounted in the OEM V/R location, with the cooling fins oriented to get maximum contact from cooling airflow, with a good ground and heatsink paste between the metal backing on the V/R and the raw metal of the original V/R mount. I modified the undertail plastic for improved airflow, and the V/R rarely gets above ambient temperature. My OEM stator saw only 1685 miles by the previous owner before I had the EBR rotor installed, and fortunately the stator was not significantly damaged. Here's hoping for success in whatever changes you decide to make. (Message edited by araignee on September 21, 2017) | ||
| Bubba_ |
just remembered Twin Motorcycles has their own updated rotor some here have used them i believe handy link pricey i expect, but not sure | ||
| Harry99 |
Bubba, Thanks for the suggestion. That was a route I was leaning towards as a last resort if I couldn't find a modified rotor. Araignee, Thanks for all the info. I have a rotor,gasket, nut, crankshaft locking tool, and Ricks stator on the way. Now I'm working on the SH847. So the SH847 will fit in the spot of the OEM V/R (same bolt holes)? Can you explain what mods you made to the undertail plastic to improve airflow. Would you do anything different? Where did you buy the SH847? I found one at roadster cycle. Thanks | ||
| Araignee |
Harry, I've commented earlier on how I got the SH847 to fit the original space, so try a forum google search for "SH847 in stock V/R location" or something like that. You may also be able to search for posting of a particular username. Plan to spend a lot of time holding or zip tying or taping parts in place or out of the way, marking and trimming, reassembling and retrimming, repositioning, etc. If you try to reassemble without trimming the undertail adequately for clearance, it might allow you to flex and fit it, but all the bolts won't line up and the tail will be off-center when viewed from the rear. Take the time to ensure everything fits BEFORE making any moves you can't easily undo, like cutting wires. I ended up trimming a bit more of the undertail than really needed, but I kept checking it with the other side of the tail to keep from getting into trouble. It's better if you sneak up on the final trimming a little at a time, rather than getting hasty and hacking off something you might really regret. Like fingers, for example. I probably had the undertail installed and removed at least a dozen times before I got it to fit with out binding or twisting the tail off-center. It's much more aligned and solidly-mounted now than it was in stock form. You need to get all the stock circuit breakers, solenoid, old V/R, the tail cover, etc., out of the way to do the job. Disconnect the battery, and remove it if you have to. Once that's all clear, loosen the undertail, but leave the center bolt on the rail at the rear of the seat and the front bolt installed but loose so you can move the undertail to identify and mark the parts where there is contact with the V/R. The SH847 will fit. Orient it so the wire leads are on the top. The front OEM bolt hole is used, but you need to tilt the V/R until it's level, then mark and drill a hole in the rear metal subframe. Make sure there are no clearance issues with the seat or bodywork with the V/R in it's new home BEFORE you drill the hole. Get a new bolt that matchs the diameter of the original, but is long enough to go all the way through the rear metal subframe. You'll need a washer and nut also, preferably a nyloc or sta-tite, or you can use loctite. This position also ensures the cooling fins are oriented fore and aft for maximum surface area exposure to airflow. Note that the mounting holes on the SH847 are a bit larger than the OEM part, but this allows you a bit of wiggle room to align things during final assembly. Make sure the wires are plugged into the V/R and routed without being too crimped or crowded, and install the seat to make sure they don't cause problems before soldering or crimping them into the wiring harness. I used the original V/R power plug, soldering the new wires to those on the OEM connector. You can trim the tail where needed with either an exacto knife, single edged razor blade, or a hacksaw blade. I used all three, and sanded or scraped the edges smooth. I ended up using a zip tie to hold the front of the undertail to the metal subframe near the front of the V/R, which stabilized it and eliminated rattles. If you plan to solder the heavy gauge wires from roadstercycle, you will need a high-powered gun to do. Get help with this from someone with experience if you can. As an alternative, you can just crimp the supplied fittings and shrink-wrap over them. Jack at roadstercycle has worked pretty hard to make the kit complete, and includes instructions and has on-line videos of installations. The circuit breaker fits nicely on the front right part of the undertail. There's another wiring connector there that fits to the undertail with a plastic plug. You can ziptie the wiring and the undertail in place once you have it fitting well. I don't use the lock for the seat because I modified my bike for solo use only. You might have to adjust the routing of the cable to the latch a bit. The V/R sits aft of the air vent, so it shouldn't cause a problem. I keep the attachment for my battery tender inside, reachable from the air vent opening, and it sits in front of the V/R just fine. When you get ready to bolt the SH847 in place for the last time, coat the flat plate in the OEM V/R location with heat-sink paste to provide a good ground and promote cooling. You can wipe off the excess goop once it's tight. The key to this type of job is finesse, and calm, deliberate, well-vetted moves. It's a chess match, not mixed martial arts. Give your machine the respect it deserves, and it will reward you with reliable high performance. (Message edited by araignee on September 27, 2017) (Message edited by araignee on September 27, 2017) (Message edited by araignee on September 27, 2017) | ||
| Araignee |
Hey Harry, I'm pretty sure I needed a longer front mounting bolt for the SH847 as well as one for the rear, now that I think about it. The mounting bosses on the SH847 are thicker than the OEM V/R, so the bolts have to be longer. The SH847 is heavier and larger than the OEM part, but the diameter of the OEM bolts is robust enough to hold it securely. I did a mockup by bolting the new V/R in place using the stock front bolt hole, then rotated the top of the V/R so the wires were happy exiting their connector plug while staying below the top of the rear subframe, then zip-tied it in place with the wires and plugs attached. I marked the spot on the subframe rail for drilling, then put the seat on and made sure it all fit with everything lined up. Save the drilling for last, when you're sure everything fits. The subframe rail isn't very wide, so if you get the location wrong and need to re-drill, you might have to move things around to find a fresh place to try again. Drill a small pilot hole first to check your location. If you try to pivot the V/R to allow new mounting hole(s), you end up out of contact with the subframe rail and have to get pretty creative to figure out how set up an alternate rear mounting point. At this point, the lower part of the undertail will be interfering with the bottom of the SH847, and the cooling fins will be in contact with a vertical section of the undertail as well. Now you know where to mark and start trimming. Carefully. (Message edited by araignee on September 27, 2017) | ||
| Araignee |
Harry,got your PM on bolt holes. You are correct that the OEM V/R mount holes are top and bottom. My error. When I did the V/R replacement on my bike, I also removed and modified the rear subframe extensively. This included a lot of tedious work removing parts of the subframe that weren't needed, sanding welds, drilling holes to cut weight, etc. While I was locked into this torture-fest, I increased the pain and matched the external shape of the heat sink plate to the exterior shape of the SH847 where I could. When I recalled looking at my completed setup, the front mount looked like I'd used part of the OEM setup, thus my confusing description. If you look at figure 7-30 in the shop manual (there's a downloadable copy on the forum), you can see the OEM V/R in place. I should have referred to this in my descriptions. Apparently, I blocked this out during many hours of suffering. I'd had the subframe powdercoated to match the textured black of the rest of the frame, and that quickly became "normal" to me. This admittedly OCD/insane attention to detail isn't required to install the SH847. Here's the correction. If you remove the OEM V/R, you'll notice it is mounted to a flat aluminum plate, which is used as a ground and heat sink. Once I decided where I wanted the SH847, I held it in place and traced it's outline and front mount hole on the OEM mounting plate. From there, you can figure out where the rear mount bolt has to be on the subframe strut and mark that. Once you have the SH847 where you want it and the mount holes marked, you can centerpunch them for drilling. Mounting the SH847 is the trickiest part, followed by the undertail trimming, but once that's all done, the rest is fairly straightforward. You can figure out the wiring routing, then unplug the SH847 wires and do the soldering or crimping, which is much easier off the bike. I cut the plug off the OEM V/R, leaving a couple inches of wire attached, then soldered/crimped that part to the new wires from the SH847. Did the same for the power plug. I was able create a fair bit of additional under-seat storage by carefully arranging the snarl of wires and components in the undertail. With the pillion seat and hardware removed, there was lots of room aft of the battery. I store a Canyon Dancer tie-down setup there, in case I ever need to transport the bike home. This should help prevent damage by Joe Buttcrack Towing. Sorry about the error on my part. I need to go for a ride. (Message edited by araignee on September 28, 2017) | ||
| Bubba_ |
I used the redneck method  I trimmed mine w/ my handy dremel with the undertray still mounted and never actually removed it; it was a bit tedious, but worked good; (if i could have found all the pieces to the 'flexible shaft' that attaches to the dremel - i believe it would have gone a lot easier) | ||
| Araignee |
Bravo, Bubba. It takes a certain type of nerdy fool to work as hard as I did to get a result which you managed to achieve, probably without resorting to as much alcohol as I did. I have also suffered the cost of thinking I needed yet one more expensive tool to... It is of course possible to do an SH847 mount behind the license bracket, if the pain of an OEM location is too much. The roadstercycle kit includes the extended cables. An aluminum bracket for mounting and heatsink and grounding duty, and you are there. Still a bit of road spray and/or debris to consider, and of course the Buell mantra of mass centralization is at risk, but not as questionable an option as the traditional HD location behind the front tire. Onlinemetals.com has exactly what their URL states, at good prices, without requiring purchases of mass quantities, and with detailed info on metal characteristics and suggested uses. If you want to try fabricating your own mount, they have what you need. There comes a point where you have to say, "that's good enough, just ride it". (Message edited by araignee on September 28, 2017) |
