| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
Ever since I changed the OEM battery in my 1125R, I've had a starting problem. When I hit the starter and the bike is cold, the voltage will drop too low while cranking and it won't start on the first try. Usually it'll start fine on the second try. I found that the brass spacer between the positive battery cable and the positive terminal on the battery was getting corroded, so I replaced it. The bike started fine on the first attempt for a short while but then became hard to start again. So I replaced the spacer again and this time I used some of that battery terminal gel. Again, the problem was resolved temporarily, but has now resurfaced. Presumably the issue is caused by the brass spacer (which is flat) not mating well with the surface of the battery terminal (which is imperfect). How do I go about ensuring a permanent good connection? | ||
| Sprintst |
sand or wire brush the parts, coat with di-electric grease this is pretty much what you've done. Re-do it, and see what happens Check all the other connections you can My current and previous batteries had that spacer and I didn't have a similar issue | ||
| Dennis_c |
check your Gr. to. Also where it hooks to the frame to be safe I put a second gr. to frame. | ||
| Sprintst |
Yes, definitely check the ground to frame | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Pardon my electric ignorance, but how could the ground to the frame cause corrosion on the positive battery lead? This issue didn't start happening until I changed out the stock battery a couple years ago. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
Corrosion is generally caused by the dissimilar metals; copper and lead. Corrosion on the positive terminal is a giveaway for over-charging and that could be destroying your batteries. Are you running an aftermarket VR? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I assume that the spacer is brass--presumably brass and lead are dissimilar metals? My original battery lasted until 2014, so I don't think it died prematurely. Charging system is all stock. My 1125 is an '08. | ||
| Rayamora |
annyeong haseyo  http://bit.ly/hargajellygamat | ||
| Nuts4mc |
link to a redundant (2nd) ground...scroll down for pix a P/N: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/674577.html?1336678989 if you live where it rains/humid...need to grease the terminals...the grease keeps the air(humidity) from getting in and starting the corrosion process you may also try a external or internal tooth lock washer to bite into the metal ( of course with some grease)...it's the resistance of a poor connection that is giving you the problem... check and make sure the Voltage Regulator hardware is tight...the stock system uses the sub frame as a "heat sink"....if you remove the VR...you should use some thermal grease (like they use on heatsinks for the CPU on your computer...most electronic stores and maybe some automotive stores carry it ...it's white and pasty like toothpaste) to insure there is no air-gap between the frame and the VR under the seat...look for and check the condition of the connector from the stator (the big grey connector with (3) yellow wires)...it is often a place where poor connection ( due to high current and high heat)and high resistance (are the wires brown/black??)takes place. buy a volt meter... check your battery voltage at the battery while the engine is running...greater than 13 volts? ...rev the engine...greater than 14 volts?...maybe time for a new VR...hope this helps | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Battery voltage when cruising is usually 13.7-13.8v according to the cluster. When the fans come on, that drops by a tenth or two when cruising. At idle with the fans on, the voltage quickly (like within less than a minute) drops into the 12s, eventually getting down as low as 12.3. Voltage at the cluster never climbs above 13.8, ever. I read your thread about the second ground. I'm not clear on how that second ground works. It looks like it's being run from the ground point on the subframe to the motor mount bolt on the starter. What exactly does that accomplish? I've ordered an EarthX ETX24C LiFePo4 battery--I figured the extra CCA and higher resting voltage would help for cold starts. When I pull the seat, I'll check the stator / R/R connector. I might as well do an output test on the stator, too--I just did one on my Speed Triple. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
1) back in the day when I was researching the possibility of purchasing a 1125...I studied the issues that afflicted the Ulysses model(Air cooled engine)...wiring and wheel bearings were top topics on that board. 2) the extra ground is "belts and suspenders" engineering...as temperature goes up the resistance in all things electric also goes up...the starter motor is subject to a large amount of heat soak..it needs more volts and amps to turn the engine over...small gauge wires supplying a ground to the starter motor just aren't gonna let enough volts and amps flow...and if it tries it's may be stealing needed voltage from say... the ignition system ( that's why old cars of the 60s and 70s had "ballast resisters" on the ignition coil...the engineers knew that when starting a big hot V8, the starter motor next to those big hot headers "stole" some of the needed voltage/current to fire the plugs...the ignition coils could fire the plugs with less than 12VDC...the ballast resister kept the coil from burning up after the car was running) The extra ground gives the starter motor an path of least resistance to flow more volts and amps. ( and it may also increase the life of the Sprag clutch.. due to the fact it may start quicker...lowering the duty cycle on the sprag clutch) some BMW motorcycles have issues starting when hot due to cost cutting measures by the accounting department...you can purchase "hot start" battery cables off of Ebay like this one for a GS: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-R1200GS-R1200RT-R1200- Starting-Upgrade-Kit-Bike-starts-in-1-second-/1504 26318471 think back to when the 1125 was "conceived"...I'm sure there were many cost cutting efforts done to compete with the bikes from Japan...wiring and the labor to build them is costly (that's why the harness is manufactured in Mexico) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
A point-blank question--should the '08s be capable of 14+V at the cluster? A friend's '09 would easily do 14V but I assumed that was because it had the stronger '09+ charging system (which burned up on him more than once). | ||
| Froggy |
Yes, you should be seeing 14V even with the lower output stator. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Is Nuts4mc's secondary ground cable likely to improve the voltage so I see 14+ at the cluster? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Extra cable = more voltage? = No the battery doesn't make electricity ...it only stores what it's given...suggest you look at stator output vs VR output...big grey connector=Hmmmm toasty?? | ||
| Terrys1980 |
The charging circuit will only charge about 30% above resting voltage of the battery so 14+ volts isn't as common as you would think. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Okay, so the extra ground cable is just more likely to prevent voltage droop when starting the bike? Here's a link to the cable that Nuts4mc used: http://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery-cable/duralast-battery-cable/570478_339715_9557/?&searchText=dw440b (Message edited by thefleshrocket on July 15, 2016) | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Yes... 1)if anything it helps the starter spin faster with more voltage/current with the lower resistance of the direct/extra cable. 2) it helps by not "stealing/redirecting" any voltage or current to the starter that is needed to power the ECU/ignition circuit....electricity takes the path of least resistance. if you read my old post...most of my issues take place when the bike is HOT ( electrically high resistance)...I needed some way to lower the resistance so that the bike would start right after a gas stop....it's not perfect, but it helps out here in the HOT South-West. my biggest issue is the voltage required by the fans, even with a "Race Only" ECU, the fans kick in alot...especially when I'm canyon carving....the location of my aftermarket VR may have to change from under the seat by the License Plate...to flat up against the plate to catch enough air to cool it...if the VR fails it'll blow the main fuse I have wired in (40amps) and the bike will be on battery power only ( what is known as a "Total Loss" system ...sometimes used by racers on the track when the qualifying race is only a few laps)...I have an add on Volt meter display, so that the main IC can display temps (AT&CT) and the add-on display shows volts.(wired to the heated grip connector) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Sounds like you've got a pre-warranty-replacement-cluster '08 if it displays AT and CT at the same time. I was fortunate enough to get my '08's cluster replaced with a later one under warranty, back in '10. My 1125 has no issues starting when hot--it'll do it on the first press, unlike cold when it usually takes two presses of the starter. If my new EarthX battery doesn't fix the starting issues, I'll add the extra ground cable. Regarding the fans, I have a race ECU but have reprogrammed the fans to come on at 185F and turn off at 175F. The default settings of on at 170 and off at 160 are basically a recipe for the fans being on continuously, as coolant temp will NEVER drop below 160F when the bike is running. I also set the fans to turn off immediately as soon as the bike is shut off. The last thing a bike with a weak charging system needs is the fans spending 30 seconds or a minute drawing down the battery when it's not receiving any charge. (Message edited by thefleshrocket on July 15, 2016) | ||
| Rayamora |
The more we are grateful, the more happiness we get. Every successful person must have a failure. obat tradisional penyempitan pembuluh darah di jantung Do not be afraid to fail because failure is a part of success. qnc jelly gamat asli | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I installed the new EarthX battery yesterday and tested the stator. Test results suggest stator is in excellent shape. --Resistance between each leg - 0.2 - 0.3 ohms --Resistance to ground - infinite --~19v at each leg at idle, climbing smoothly to ~65V at 5000rpm --No charring or corrosion at stator -> R/R harness Bike started on the first try this morning within two revolutions, but the cluster did go blank for a second. No battery idiot light at all. Also, on the way to work (12-minute 7-mile commute, a couple stop signs, no stoplights), voltage at the cluster was around 13.8-13.9, and briefly touched 14.0. I think I'll add the extra ground cable per Nuts4mc just to be safe. | ||
| Willmrx |
You may have a issue with the start relay. It shuts power off to the head lights and other stuff when the starter is engaged. I had a similar issue and is was a fried start relay. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Willmrx, just to make sure I understand--you mean that if the start relay isn't working, the bike won't cut power to the headlights when cranking? If so, I should be able to see if the headlights go out when cranking and, if they do, I can assume that the relay is working? (Message edited by thefleshrocket on July 20, 2016) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I haven't noticed the cluster going blank any more during starting. I've made it a point to wait for the tach to sweep and the CEL to go off before hitting the start button, which might be giving the battery a little more time to warm up. I haven't yet added the extra ground cable. On a related note, I think the whole problem was just a crappy battery. Both my Speed Triple and 1125R had their original batteries fail around the same time. I replaced them with "Motocross by Yuasa" batteries, purchased from a local vendor. Both of the batteries were purchased without the electrolyte installed, and I followed the recommended procedure when installing it. If I recall correctly, I charged them overnight on a Battery Tender Junior (0.75 amp charge, then float charge once topped off) before installing. After pulling the 1125R battery, I fully charged it on the BTJ. It registered 13.0v after disconnecting the charger. I let it sit for a day, not connected to anything, and it registered 12.4v, noticeably below the 12.6 "full" resting voltage. The battery in my Speed Triple does the same thing--drops to 12.4v after several hours of sitting after being fully charged. Since the early Speedies are known for trashing their sprag clutches under excessive cranking or low-battery-voltage, I'm going to have to pitch that battery in the trash, too. (By trash, I mean recycle.) Since I was the one who put the electrolyte in the batteries and charged them up, I can't blame the vendor. Since I followed the preparation instructions, I can't blame myself. So, my guess is that these are just crappy batteries. https://www.google.com/search?q=motocross+by+yuasa +pics&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1405&bih=998&tbm=isch&tb o=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiT-c6W86DOAhXh3YMK HdKnCAMQsAQIGw I haven't decided if I'm going to put an EarthX battery in the Speed Triple. I'm confident that it's the "best" LiPoFe4 battery out there because if its electronics that protect the battery from overcharging and overdischarging, but.. man, $260 is a lotta money for a bike battery. I kind of don't really trust lead acid batteries after these two bad Motocross batteries, though, and if I'm going to spend $160 on a LiPoFe4 battery, I almost might as well spend the extra $100 to make sure it won't die prematurely. | ||
| Dannybuell |
These folks make the Harley battery and give a a big bang for the buck. Their private label has a beige case, same battery good connectors and no problems with spacers... http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/ better link http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/applications/power-sports/ (Message edited by dannybuell on August 01, 2016) | ||
| Willmrx |
The first thing that I noticed was that I lost the speedo on the cluster, then we stopped for a break. When we went to leave and I turn the key the lights did not come on and the cluster was flickering and it would not turn over at all. Checked the relays and could clearly see over heating damage on the out side of the relay. I swapped it out with the auxiliary relay and all was back to normal. I hope that helps. |
