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Emufriedchicken
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 02:49 pm: | 
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@Zhen13 my Buell tech seems to think that the new pump I put in the bike ( I replaced just the pump with a aftermarket pump only not the entire assembly.)has good pressure but low delivery rate. Anyway we are sourcing a proper pump and when it arrives in a week and when I get to install it I will give you feedback on the out come. |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 05:43 pm: |
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@Emufriedchicken I got a break in the rain. And got to take her out and run some tests. First I tried riding her after the plug cleaning procedure. No difference. So I tried disconnecting the fuel pressure sensor. No difference. I still had the 2nd ecm that I had swapped with my original. So I replaced it with my original. Then I tried disconnecting the sensor again. But no dice. I did swap out my air filter (k&n) with the stock one I had replaced. It greatly reduce the surging. So am thinking maybe I need to replace my O2 sensors? The other thing I managed to pin down it happens at exactly 3k rpms. Is there something that happens with the injectors at that rpm? The bikes shakes and vibtrates so bad the tach needle shakes violently
(Message edited by Zhen13 on May 10, 2016) |
S21125r
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 02:32 pm: |
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Before you go too far down the rabbit hole I would put it in diag mode and see what the Air Fuel Values are for each cylinder bank.
If both cylinders have high AVF numbers then that means that both injectors have to stay open longer in order to satisfy fuel demands. The common denominator is the pump but it is possible that both injectors could be partially clogged or both intake boots could be leaking, or both O2 sensors could be malfunctioning but what are the odds?
If one cylinder is normal and the other has high AVF numbers then that cylinder is either not getting enough fuel (clogged injector), is getting too much air (manifold leak), or the O2 sensor is reading incorrect and altering the closed loop feedback chain. Or… a bad ignition event(s)… Incidentally, a spark plug that does not spark will dump unburned fuel and AIR out the pipe and the O2 sensor will read it as lean (O2 reads oxygen content, and nothing more). As these non-fire events stack up the O2 keeps requesting more fuel until it runs too rich to run right even if the plug lights it off. I would think that you would see a trouble code for misfires though.
You could use TunerPro to reset your AVF, disable closed loop and see if all is well after you run it a few days. If she’s running like a champ then it’s probably a bad O2. Turn closed loop back on and if it progressively runs crappier and the AFVs start to climb again then it will confirm you are in the ball park with the O2. If it’s still running like crap after the reset and disable then ignition, injector, and manifold leaks are still in play. If you suspect one injector/O2 sensor and not the other then you could always swap them and see if the higher AFV follows your swap around. |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 05:12 pm: |
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@S21125r Thanks for the help and all the useful info. The AFV front and rear are 140. I read on another thread that it should be about 100 so they are both high? I have just replaced the fuel pump with a factory replacement. And the fuel pressure sensor. I also got a code in ecmspy saying IAC position too high. I also noticed the O2 sensors are running at .7 instead of the .5 they should be the electrical diagnostic manual say that is caused by a rich mixture. I am going to pull the throttle body and remove IAC and clean it and check its seal
(Message edited by Zhen13 on May 11, 2016)
(Message edited by Zhen13 on May 11, 2016) |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 06:11 pm: |
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Zhen:
Are you sure your O2 sensors are operating properly? |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 06:32 pm: |
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Zhen said..."I checked the starter connections and the grounds everything is clean and tight. I have been racking my brain for potential solutions. I do remember the original owner telling me the bike had a pipe on it before. had a pipe on it before."
Was silicone gasket sealer used on the intake/exhaust gaskets? That can really screw up the O2 sensors!
Do not put ANY silicone gasket sealer/grease on the O2 sensor threads either.
You can, however, use a highly conductive anti-seize on your O2 sensor threads.
Another killer of O2 sensors in Leaded Race Gas.
(Message edited by two_seasons on May 14, 2016) |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2016 - 06:50 pm: |
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I can't say 100%, but I had the same thought. So I disconnected both of them and went for a short ride, but the surging persisted unfortunately. So I am thinking the injectors are both partially clogged. I am going to pull the injectors and hook them up to a 9v battery intermittently and blast some carb cleaner thru them. I have my fingers crossed. If it helps I will send them out to get properly cleaned.
(Message edited by Zhen13 on May 14, 2016) |
S21125r
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2016 - 12:02 pm: |
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Dont quote me on it but I believe the O2 are just off the shelf components used in GM cars (someone confirm please). They are probably heated type but I bet you could pick them up for ~ $30 a piece. Injectors are pricer and probably worthwhile spending money on getting those professionally cleaned.
The other thing to confirm is fuel pressure. You should have a reading within diag mode that will tell the FP is while your standing still. Checking while in transit is a little trickier since it will boot you out of diag as soon as you start moving. If memory serves correct, you have to unplug the Vehicle Speed Sensor (someone confirm please) and then put it in diag mode so that you can watch the pressure while moving. Might be worthwhile recording the cluster with a cell phone while you do this so that you are not distracted with watching it and the road at the same time :-) |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2016 - 01:55 pm: |
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Thanks, I had found an old thread where someone had linked the sensor on Amazon $15ea with 2 day shipping its worth the $30 to cross it off my list. I "cleaned" the injectors the spray seemed even and consistent but I will send them out after I install the new O2 sensors. I will check the fuel pressure and use my phone to record and see if there is anything going on at speed. The pump and regulator are both new factory parts but you never know. |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2016 - 12:33 pm: |
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Update I have replaced the plugs (without rotating the motor) they looked ok to me (see pic) And O2 sensors.I have not had a chance to put it all back together yet and test ride her. But I was reading another thread where someone was having trouble idling and bogging (surging) on acceleration. But the comment that struck a cord was by Reepicheep about the tach needle doing the funky chicken dance while the problem is occurring. And that is exactly what happens when it occurs with the tach needle on my bike. So I started reading threads on CKP problems and replacing the CKP
The symptoms seem very similar to mine. So I checked to see if the CKP was loose it did not appear to be. There was a comment in the threads by Dean about checking if there was any metal shaving built up on the sensor. So I was going to pull it and clean it. If I do end up replacing the CKP I will take Willmrx advice try swapping the new with the old and see if it helps before I rotate the motor and disconnect it properly.
Bike has 15k on her
Any input is appreciated |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2016 - 09:44 pm: |
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Don't forget...anti-seize on the sparkplugs! |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2016 - 12:32 am: |
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@Two_seasons I didn't forget, but thanks for the reminder.
Well I am not sure if it was the plugs or the O2 sensors. I did both at the same time. But regardless she is fixed!!! I have to fix one fork seal and she is good to go.
Thank you everyone for help and support it is greatly appreciated.
(Message edited by Zhen13 on June 09, 2016) |
Zhen13
| | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2016 - 07:58 pm: |
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Emufriedchicken
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 03:16 pm: |
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@ Zhen13 ... Well I finally fixed my surging and check engine light problems. It seems like the wiring in the fuel pump housing was shot. It has been documented on this forum before about this issue. I have since replaced the whole fuel pump assembly and the CR is running sweet as,,,!!! |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 07:35 pm: |
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Good job guys  |
