| Author | Message | ||
     Bradleysmith |
I have a 2008 1125R. I get the engine light on after 10-15 miles and the error referenced in the subject. I've read a bit on past threads, but not sure if the answers match my issue. One week after a perfect ride, I got the bike out an noticed that it was idling a bit low, took longer to heat up and when I get on the throttle, it takes a long time to accelerate. Forgive my technical terminology here, but it seems 'bogged' down or running rich or something. It just won't perform like it used to. I used to not be able to get full on the throttle, but now, I can crank the whole thing and wait for it to get up to speed. Any suggestions? Thanks | ||
| Terrys1980 |
The front O2 sensor is failing. Should be able to find a Bosche replacement from the local auto parts store... It could also reference P0132 which is front always rich. Did you change exhaust or something without proper tune? (Message edited by terrys1980 on November 25, 2015) | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Ok, I bought an O2 Sensor (the one that is attached to the muffler) on EBay. I hooked it up and the bike still seems to lag on acceleration and warms up real slow due to lower RPMs than normal. (I've had the bike for 1.5 years and have had no problems up until 2 weeks ago). Can anyone help with other ideas (or did I replace the wrong sensor?). Also, is there any reset I need to do? Thanks for any ideas. | ||
| Froggy |
I wonder if you have a fuel pump issue, it can cause all the symptoms you describe if it is not pumping enough fuel into the motor. | ||
| Panshovevo |
Froggy, I defer to your experience, but as the ECM tries to compensate for low fuel pressure by extending the injector pulsewidth, I would think it would show a low fuel pressure code before the rider felt the symptoms. I could be wrong... Bradley, which sensor did you replace, the one you can see from the front, or the one you get to by removing the air flow guide on the side? The sensors can be damaged easily. Was it a new one, or used? (Message edited by panshovevo on December 05, 2015) | ||
| Froggy |
That is very true. I know I have seen failing pumps on the XBs (which lack pressure sensors before 2010), and the bike slowly cranked up the AFV till the maximum as it was running lean, creating similar symptoms to the OP's bike. Also could be something further down the line like one of the injectors. The ECM can't monitor the injectors in a meaningful way, it basically just tells them to turn on and off as needed. Possibly the pump is fine, but the injectors need cleaning. | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Hi Panshovevo, I replaced the O2 sensor that is attached to the muffler in the front of the bike (behind the wheel). Its connector is tucked away right above the air intake (also used some dielectric grease for the connection - thanks to a suggestion from Yankeerl). I bought the sensor brand new on eBay from Magnum tuning. While it is not the bosch exact replacement, they claim it to be the same (??!!??!!) I have been riding it all day trying to eliminate various issues. A few observations: - in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, when going on a very slight downgrade, the bike will jump forward like it is trying to find the right power. This is at about 20-30% throttle. But when i get on the throttle, it will just bog down and not accelerate very fast. - i have reset the tps - and it shows 2 - 100% in the diagnostic - the top speed seems to be around 95 mph in full throttle - 6th gear. in 6th gear i started going on a upgrade and the bike started to slow gradually. I had to pull off, b/c i feared getting a ticket, but it noticeably lost power. - im still geting the FRT O2 sensor issue after having replaced it. - i took off the air filter (K&N) and sprayed shots of fuel injector into the throttle bodies and the small hole next to them (From another thread). Still nothing. Next week, will switch out the stock ECM for a friends to test it and see if it might work. Open to other ideas.... Thanks | ||
| Panshovevo |
Bradley, any other codes stored? Are you seeing that code displayed while riding, or from Diagnostic mode? You might try removing the fuel rail connector and spraying some carb cleaner or Seafoam into the front injector, or even pull the injector and soaking it. I'll research it a bit tomorrow. Raining here, and likely to do so all day tomorrow too, so I should have some time. What is the AFV for the front and rear cylinder in Diagnostic Mode? (Message edited by panshovevo on December 05, 2015) | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Hi. The 02 sensor comes on after about 3-4 miles of riding, then the engine light stays on. I have also seen the IAC and ACT, but on a longer ride earlier in the day (30 miles). The codes from diagnostic mode in order are: COMM ERROR : U0001 IAC or 1AC SYS ERROR : P0506 FRT O2 SYS ERR : P0131 ACT INT SYS ERR : P---- F-R RF SYS ERR P1047 FRT O2 SYS ERR P034 Before my last ride today, I disconnected the black battery cable for about 20 min, then reconnected and rode. These are the codes. I don't know how to reset them, or it they reset each time the ignition is turned on. For the fuel rail connector, any more guidance? I am not sure where or what that is. Although I have learned a lot today. Also, can you walk me through the steps to get the AFVvalue? ( what is the AFV?) Thanks a lot!!!! | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Sorry. Last error code is P0134 | ||
| Panshovevo |
Apologies, the weather turned and I got some unexpected riding in yesterday. AFV is Adaptive Fuel Value, displayed in Live Data of Diagnostic Mode. It will typically be a number in the range of 90-110. It is a percentage of adjustment from the MAP (preprogrammed fuel and timing information) stored in the ECM, and is determined by info gathered by the ECM from it's sensors while in closed loop mode of operation. The ECM goes into learning mode (closed loop) when the O2 sensors reach full operating temperature, the throttle position is at a low setting, and the rpms are below 4200 for a stock ECM. Race Use Only ECMs are different, and I don't yet know all of the differences. One thing I do know is that they display AFVs of 100 at every power up. Still looking, didn't get to do as much research as I expected yesterday. | ||
| Panshovevo |
Because of the IAC error code, I would start by looking for a major intake leak on the front cylinder. | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Thanks. Apologies for my lack of mechanical knowledge. Where would I look? At the gaskets? If you can be a bit more specific, would help a lot! I am a fast learner! | ||
| Terrys1980 |
I would pull the air filter base and inspect the throttle body connection there. Then you can do the WD-40 trick by spraying it where the throttle body connects to the cylinder heads. If there is any change in idle speed then it's an intake leak. | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Thanks for your help. The front AFV is 103 and rear is 93. Will try the WD-40 trick next. | ||
| Panshovevo |
More coming, but have you been checking to make sure the engine temperature isn't exceeding normal limits? While you're checking for intake leaks, open the throttle all the way, turn the engine over (preferably by hand with the switch off, and watch to make sure both intake valves are operating normally (opening and closing fully) on both cylinders. Edited to add that trouble codes, once set, even if only a one time occurrence, stay there for the next 50 starts unless cleared with the HD Breakout Box, or an aftermarket tool such as ECMDroid and a Buelltooth dongle. (Message edited by Panshovevo on December 08, 2015) | ||
| Knthorne |
Does it start hard when it's hot? Does It have a cali can? | ||
| Zac4mac |
John - kudos man, you're really picking this up fast. All good info. On the DTCs, 50 start-run cycles.. I've read it's a 30 second run or something. I have never found a way to get Loretta into learn-mode, I think she might be intellectually challenged... but beautiful.  The H-D Digital Tech is what the dealers use for checking/clearing codes and uploading revised maps. The maps for the 1125 were revised a bunch of times, the final maps being pretty good. The early ones sucked. Besides the Digital Tech and 50 run cycles, old ECMSpy can clear codes, as can ECM Droid and Tuner Pro(made by the same Austrians that made ECMSpy). Zack | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Thanks again for your help: Panshovevo - Engine temp is fine. I ran in 35-55 F weather over the weekend and is was around 167 - 172. In the summer is is around 188 on the coolant temp. I'll open up the throttle and take a picture. Not sure what the fully open position should look like, but will share. Knthorne - it starts fine, no problems. I'm not sure what a cali can is, can you explain? | ||
| Knthorne |
A carbon canister under the seat on California bikes emissions related. I had one put on to stop it from pissing gas on the garage floor. I had it taken back of when the bike started to throw codes p0506 and p0132. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/444928.html | ||
| Bradleysmith |
I started it up, let it warm up and then tried the shot of fuel injector cleaner and engine starter fluid. In both cases, there was no impact to idle RPM. I'm attaching two photos, one of the throttle body closed, the other fully open. On the second one, there was some smoke from the engine cutting out a couple times while warming up. (not sure if that is a symptom?) Not sure what to do next. I did not ride it today, however will over the weekend. I'm planning on swapping out the ECM for another from a friends to see if there is any impact. Open to other ideas. Thanks   | ||
| Panshovevo |
Thanks Zack. I'm just muddling along with the manuals, this forum, and a couple of 1125s to educate me. Bradley, I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with the fuel injector cleaner or the starting fluid, but if you're looking for intake leaks, you need to get the air box base out of the way, and start looking below the level of the throttle valves. I believe that in order for a vacuum leak to be the cause of this issue, it will have to be a major leak, and on the front cylinder. I've been known to be wrong a time or two, so check for little leaks and the rear cylinder while you're in there and checking. Have you considered trying to get a friend that's a little more mechanically experienced to help out with this? | ||
| Panshovevo |
Bradley, any progress? Been thinking... I would suggest running an additional ground wire from the engine to the negative side of the battery just to make sure a poor ground isn't confusing the ECM. A length of 16 gauge wire and two crimp on terminals. Pick an easy to get to bolt on the engine assembly, doesn't matter where. Crimp an appropriately sized terminal on one end of the wire, route the wire to the battery negative post, avoiding hot or moving parts, cut the wire to length, and crimp an appropriate terminal on that end, and hook it up. Then test ride it and see if anything changes. If it does, post the results, and we'll take it from there... Edited to add that ideally, this wire would go to the point on the left side of the front cylinder head where the ECM ground wires attach, but it's a PITA to get to. I'm going to study the wiring diagram tomorrow to see if I can come up with a better suggestion. If it was me, once I had ruled out the possibility of a bad ECM ground, I'd start by checking all the fittings on the throttle bodies and below for integrity of anything attached to them, and making sure there aren't any open fittings. Check the clamps to make sure they are tight, and intact. Another simple test you can run is for a leaky injector. I'll get back to that, (I'm wondering if maybe your rear injector might be dumping excess fuel...) but first I need a couple of questions answered. Is your Active Air Control solenoid hooked up mechanically and electrically? Can you start the engine with the IC in Diagnostic Mode and see how many steps the IAC is reading at idle? (Message edited by Panshovevo on December 12, 2015) | ||
| Bradleysmith |
No luck yet. An update, thanks to the previous post. Bike is getting about 20 mpg. There is a noticeable smell of fuel while idling and after turning bike off and leaving in garage, The IAC reads 240 steps when the engine is running. I also went through the rest of the live data and noticed that my front O2 sensor reads 0.4 volts while engine was running but the rear was jumping all around from 0.1 to 0.7. Could this be something? I'm going to get the wire to test the ground in a couple hours. Thanks for all the help. | ||
| Panshovevo |
For comparison, my '09 with a Race Use Only marked ECM, holds right around 100 steps on the IAC at idle speed of 14-1500 rpm. The O2 voltage was at .5 until the sensors warmed up, then jumped around from 0.0-.7V on both. Sounds like your front hadn't warmed up to operating temp yet. I'm thinking... What, if any, manuals do you have? In the pics above, is the air filter base plate wet/oily looking because of what you were spraying, or was it like that when you took the filter off? | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Thanks. Not sure what to make of the difference in steps for the IAC at Idle, if any. For the O2 sensor, I've tried 2 new ones, so now wondering if there is a bad connection somewhere. I've used the dielectric grease on the connection as well. I ran the bike for 45 minutes yesterday, so I think it was warm, the outside temp was 70 and the CT was 168. I can download the service manual, no problem. For the pics, it was from the spray, was a bit too liberal i guess. I also pulled out the gasket and reseated it and inspected around the connections on the throttle body, don't see any issues, although can't see a whole lot. You suggested a leaky injector? I'll check the manual to see if there is anything there. It is for sure using too much fuel by the MPG. | ||
| Bradleysmith |
I did the ground test as well. Bought 16 gauge. Hooked it to the front engine mount of the bottom radiator, then ran it to the black ( ground terminal ) of the battery. No difference on engine performance. Wondering if it is still the front O2 sensor, due to it using 0.4 volts constantly and no change like others. | ||
| Panshovevo |
I'm wondering about the O2 sensor also. Does it ever warm up and start operating normally, as indicated by changing voltage? If not, consider that dielectric grease is an insulator if used in excess. Try cleaning all of it from the pin and the socket of the connector. I'll be adding more to this. It might be time to do an injector leak test. I'll post a procedure as soon as I find the one I like. Oh yes, what is the IAC Steps reading in Diag Mode without the engine running? | ||
| Panshovevo |
Are we overlooking something obvious here? One of the problems with long distance troubleshooting is that (for me at least) I sometimes assume that the person will have ruled out certain basic things. This is a failing on my part, not on yours. Can you tell if the front cylinder spark plug is firing? Did you ever turn the engine over with the throttle wide open and the fuel and ignition off to see if the intake valves are opening and closing normally? (If you look straight down the intakes with a flashlight, you can see the valves operating. If you're not sure what they should look like, look at the rear cylinder for comparison. It's unlikely that both cylinders would be screwed up) Injector leak check: With the motor cold, and air cleaner removed, open throttle and check with a light to make sure there is no raw fuel laying in the intake tract, or anywhere in sight. Close the throttle. Turn the key on for two seconds, then back off, 5 consecutive times. Open the throttle and look again for any raw fuel in the intake. Any evidence of raw fuel indicates a leaky injector which should be replaced (assuming there was none when you started the test). (Message edited by Panshovevo on December 14, 2015) | ||
| Bradleysmith |
Thanks. Will check tonight. I was thinking the front might not be firing correctly. I did notice that the front exhaust was not hot when the engine was idling, but did not follow up really to see in more detail if it was not firing based on the comments I got earlier. But in asking a few other people, they said it would really be noticeable on the ride. But I cannot really tell. This might also be why the coolant is lower than normal. Will check tonight: 1. IAC with engine off 2. Fuel injector 3. Front cylinder spark plug firing. Thanks |
