| Author | Message | ||
     Cf_z |
I have recently (two months or so) purchased and installed a Barker's exhaust accompanied with the matching EBR ECM to my 2009 1125cr. It was installed correctly, including TPS reset. After (what seemed like) an eternity of searching on here and reading rave reviews, I expected it to be a COMPLETE transformation of the bike... which I must say, I dont feel like it was. During my months of searching on here, it seemed rather consistent that you could "request" from EBR certain things for your ECM, such as idle RPM, level of engine braking, etc. I was very disappointed when I was ready to purchase and emailed EBR asking if this was still possible... My email to EBR:
EBR's answer:
Long story short, I am rather disappointed in the lack of decel/engine braking, as well as my apparent MPG. I cant even seem to get a full decel at 6-7k rpms, and the greatest 'instant MPG' number i have seen since the upgrade is 58mpg. My overall MPG has gone down by a few as well, and I've purposefully ridden it 'kindly' to see if it can get better. This may be okay for a race bike, but a race bike mine is not..  According to others on here, EBR has programmed their ECUs to match the customer's desired performance. I wasn't asking for any custom map, so they certainly have an 'off the shelf' map they could've loaded in for me. Its a bit maddening that I am willing to spend $300 (plus $25 to ship.......) to support EBR, and they couldn't simply plug in my ECU and click a mouse a few times. Has anyone had any luck with them working a map for them, or is there anyone specific I should try to contact to get some decel programmed back into my ECU? I still love the bike, and this certainly isnt going to stop me from riding it.. but it is my daily commuter and engine braking / mpg play a large role | ||
| Rick_fears |
Hook it up to tuner pro or ecm spy. | ||
| D_adams |
They stopped offering this option several (4+?) years ago. It's a hassle when everyone wants this or that little thing changed. Try doing that 25-30 times a day, in addition to launching a new company after the shutdown with only 3 or 4 people there to run the shop. Even prior to the shutdown, I think they were backing off the customization of ecm's. On a side note, the bike wasn't targeted as a high mpg gas saver, it's a race oriented street bike. Switching the ecm to the race one, you're going to get (typically) lower fuel mileage. If you want good gas mileage, get a ninja 250 or even a Buell Blast. | ||
| Froggy |
Sounds about right, only the earliest adopters got to get one with settings they wanted, everyone else has to either pony up for the programmable version, or take what they are given. Because of the fueling improvements of the Race ECM, I gained several MPG on each tank average for each of my 1125s, bringing up the usual average from low 40s to high 40s, best tank at 55mpg for 225 miles. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hate to say it, but why is MPG important? Usually, the lower the MPG, the more fun you are having. If you are running the bike and getting anywhere close to decent MPG, you need to downshift 2,3 or 4 times. | ||
| Ratbuell |
God forbid...leave it stock. I've been perfectly happy with my CR, bone-stock. 143hp (rear wheel, 1k service, dynojet dyno) is thirsty, no matter what programming you use. Put it on a diet, you lose power, plain n simple. Want MPG? Buy a 250, not a superbike with lights and turn signals. | ||
| Stevel |
Cf z, I'm amazed that your amazed. To assume that bolting on a silencer is going to amazingly transform the bike is to assume that the factory and all the engineers that designed the machine were , to put is simply, were stupid. If it were so easy, why wouldn't it have been done before it left the factory? Well, the answer is simple, every tune is a set of compromises. By adding a free flowing, louder exhaust, it changes the scavenging to a point where the engine is running lean, so you then spent $300 for a tune that compensates for excessive scavenging. The only way this new tune can help is to fatten up the mixture to compensate. The exhaust is still over scavenging and now you bitch because your fuel economy is worse. You have been delivered exactly what you asked for. It is no one's fault except your own that you did not know what you were purchasing. | ||
| Mke |
I don't even know wtf "get a full decel at 6-7k rpms" even means. I'm just happy that every time I go to the pump it's less than $15 and I get to ride it like I stole if for a few more days. The electronics keep telling me that I'm getting an average of 32mpg.... And I really need to double check that number. 32mpg is disappointing, but I ride it pretty hard, so I suspect that low mpg is my fault. oops. What I can tell you is that I have a Jardine RT-4 carbon can on my 1125r turned cr, and I had my stock 08' ecm reprogrammed by a guy that works at HD and races Buells. I can't tell you that my ecm is any better than yours, or the stock one, or the EBR one, but he did ask about the type of exhaust I had before it was reprogrammed. So there is that. So if you want my .bin file titled BUE2D242-11-30-09-1125r, pm me and I'll send it your way. If you don't know what to do with said .bin, then you've got a lot of research and studying to do before you figure it out. (The "TunerPro Tuning Manual" is 148pages...if you're up to the task.) Now for the warning-> You CAN and WILL brick* your ecm something fierce, if you don't know what you're doing. *In Nerd world, they say something is 'bricked', when you mess up said something soooo well, that it's completely non functional, it can't be reset, there is no response, and no way to fix it... it is now a brick So, what I'm saying is get a data cable, figure out how to make TunerProRT talk to your ECM and don't fuk_ anything up. | ||
| Dannybuell |
The race ecm idle air control setting is what I have referred to as 'dieseling'. when you drop off the throttle the dieseling effect leaves no compression for braking. I agree with Cf_z, I like compression braking. I can pull the clutch in f I need to coast! the eng that comes up with an external adjustable switch that patches into the IAC system will get my $$$.$$. | ||
| Cf_z |
I saw many of your posts claiming this. I am currently getting about 32mpg. Do you typically decel when stopping, or pull the clutch and coast? After playing with it last night i found when coasting it will give much higher 'instant' numbers.
Eek, take a step back. No need to jump all over me and ASSUME things yourself. I have not a clue what you mean by that. I didnt add a silencer, i added a much more performance tuned exhaust and matched it with an ECM that was supposedly fine tuned for that exact exhaust. Why couldnt they be installed from the factory? Because of laws and regulations on new motorcycles, i would guess. Do you think buell would've sent out his new bikes with that monster of an exhaust system if he had his choice? I doubt it.
I knew full well what i was purchasing, and ALSO know full well what is possible when tuning fuel and spark maps. To say that adding a performance exhaust means you WILL lose MPG is absolutely incorrect. When compared side to side, at the exact same RPM and Load, shouldn't a 'finer tuned' map paired with a more efficient exhaust / intake system be able to go further on the same fuel as a stock setup?
Full decel being no fueling. Typical ECMs will watch manifold pressure, RPM and throttle position (sometimes just a combo of 2) and decide what fueling and spark to provide. The race ECM is still providing fueling when the throttle is closed and manifold pressure is high in vacuum. I guess my point was, i didnt want a custom map of any kind. All i wanted was to pull fuel when deceling / get my engine braking back. Clearly they had a map already for this (as others have it..), and i know it doesnt take much to load a map onto an ECU. I would be willing to pay extra for it, and it would be nice if they DID offer this. | ||
| Stevel |
Cf_z , I don't know where to begin. I don't wish to be unkind, so let me simply say that you do not understand and your perception of how motors work is badly distorted. I think it would be a very good idea to study this subject in greater depth. I will state again for clarity, you were delivered exactly what you ordered and what you ordered was not what you wanted. | ||
| Cf_z |
Lol... We're gonna have to agree to disagree then, i guess. I understand very well how an internal combustion motor works. I have been an automotive technician my entire life, and currently work for Tesla. I may have moved on from internal combustion, but still have not forgot. | ||
| Mke |
ahhhhh. got it. Now you got me interested "for my information". I found the fuel cut parameters during decel in TunerPro. It's currently 'off' on my ecm, but I might turn it on and see what changes. Guess I have to take a baseline ride first. Darn.   | ||
| Stimbrell |
"Hook it up to tuner pro or ecm spy." +1 to this, Spend some time researching Tuner Pro and ECM Spy and get what you want. | ||
| Andros |
I used a twin motorcycles map. And it DID transform the bike. Sounded better, pulled harder and less flat spots. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I've got an EBR ECM with a Barker exhaust. The EBR ECM can be modified if you have the cable and the software. I've been drinking and don't have my laptop handy, but send me a PM and I'll pass along to you the software you need to restore your engine braking. (I, too, liked the EBR ECM in its initial configuration but HATED it after they reduced the engine braking.) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Thefleshrocket: If I sent you my ECM could you restore the engine braking? | ||
| Mke |
I can verify, that doing nothing more than enabling the "fuel cut" feature in the ecm via Tunerpro brought back the engine braking, with a vengeance. It's there but it isn't very smooth. Feels like I'm riding a bull. There's too much engine braking during decel. So Mr.Fleshrocket (a disturbing screen name btw) Are you using Tunerpro? | ||
| Cf_z |
x2.. PM sent! | ||
| Froggy |
Usually I decel by pulling the clutch and coasting, sometimes popping it into neutral. I avoid touching the brakes as much as possible as that is just wasting energy. Even with the reduced engine braking of the Race ECM, it still has more than I'd like. I rarely have my display on instant MPG these days, so I can't recall what mine typically says, but my fuel economy numbers are actual calculations from dividing my trip odometer by the amount of gas to fill the bike back up to the same point. The displayed average on the dash is pretty damn close to my numbers, always within margin of error. Tesla? Consider me jealous | ||
| Dannybuell |
could a rheostat be hooked up to the IAC stepper motor so the amount of engine braking could be tuned in real time? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Just to clarify, I have an EBR ECM map from before EBR started disabling the engine braking by default. I don't know specifically which parameter needs to be changed in the configuration to restore the engine braking, but it sounds like Mke is on the right path. I found an old thread where I specified what you'd need to modify your ECM settings. Original post is here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/699069.html?1354060840 ------------------------------------- This info SHOULD work. Use ECMRead for Mono to read and write the turn from and to the ECM. Select stock ECM, and the COM port of your cable: http://www.ecmspy.com/download.shtml Apparently you now have to register to get access to downloads. Download a definition file that is appropriate to your ECM from ECMSpy.com as well: http://www.ecmspy.com/eeprom_info.shtml I used BUE2D which is what matched my ECM. Use TunerPro RT to modify the map itself: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm Lastly, you'll need the USB cable to go from the bike to your computer: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/A9317.html That ought to get you able to download the map and view and edit it on your computer. As far as what to change to get rid of the kickstand error, I'm not sure. (All of the software required is free--your only out-of-pocket cost is the cable, and your time to figure it all out!) (Message edited by thefleshrocket on April 13, 2015) (Message edited by thefleshrocket on April 13, 2015) | ||
| Terrys1980 |
Engine braking is accomplished by adding fuel to the first two or three of rows of throttle positions/percentages in the mid to upper rpm ranges. Well that's how I used to do it tuning XBs. This is an example of what I am talking about.  | ||
| Mke |
Thanks for the file Thefleshrocketbro. Looks like the answer to engine braking lies deep within the matrix... of the Buell ECM. The engine braking is coming from somewhere other than fuel and timing maps. I haven't figure out exactly where, but I've got it narrowed down after a few test rides with different ecm test programs. So, if anyone has ideas on what these things do, please advise: - Fuel PI Tables (lean and rich) - Runing IAC Position map OR...if someone from EBR would just let me know how to program my ecm so I have 150mpg and 150hp, that would be super helpful too | ||
| D_adams |
Currently that's a mutually exclusive requirement. | ||
| Dannybuell |
150mpg and 150hp would be this type of bike. http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/10-fastest-e lectric-motorcycles-0-60.html/?a=viewall | ||
| Cf_z |
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/product/specificati ons/ certainly high up on my list of next bikes. With the 20kwh battery getting a real world 150 miles, thats pretty damn good. I have yet to ride one, and i'm not sure how well i'd like a motorcycle without a clutch... but being in the field i'm in, it would fit well. Lithium technology is rapidly accelerating (no pun intended), so in a couple years they'll likely get more miles per charge, and hopefully even be cheaper. | ||
| Mke |
Cf_z. You should stop by Lightning sometime. It's about 45min South of SFO. Rich is the owner and he is super cool. I didn't get to ride one, but got to shoot the shit and check the place out. Good people there and the bikes look badass.  I guess my hopes for 150hp/150mpg is only a dream until I too make the switch to electric. :-) And WTF is up with EBR closing??? Does this mean we can expect to see the value of our bikes drop AGAIN!?!?! Crap. Looks like I'm holding on to my Buells for a long long time. | ||
| Spudhead |
Can anyone tell me where I can find the clutch actuator cylinder and o-ring kit that EBR sold? I have the clutch weep problem. Is there any other fix? The part # from EBR was x2086.11az I think maybe buell had a revised part also but can't find any info or # Thanks | ||
| Froggy |
Spudhead, Harley part X2086.1AM is the fix kit that Harley offers, it was similar to the EBR kit but twice the cost. Oberon makes an aftermarket slave cylinder that works great too. http://www.oberon-performance.co.uk/acatalog/Buell _Clutch_Slave_Cylinders.html |
