| Author | Message | ||
     Jjbanks |
This is my first post to this website, though I have appreciated it silently for it's info for my current (1125cr) and previous (900xb) buells. At any rate, the wire/pin 1 from the Stator to the Voltage Regulator on my 1125cr is burnt and hot to the touch after starting. I first noticed this by the smell, as everything seems to be working (for now). I have a rebuilt/wound stator and EBR fix. Installed that 2 years ago, with the aid of this forum (so don't think it has to do with my installation). Resistance checks to the stator seemed to spec out. Wondering what else the problem could be, as I couldn't find a similar post (I did on another forum, but it was from prior to the stator fix. The posted solution seemed to be a voltage regulator but there were no follow-up posts to see if that actually fixed the issue)? Am I in need of a new Voltage Regulator? Would that cause a hot wire and still charge my battery? If I do need to replace the VR, any recommendations (looked like Rick's offers one). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| Kevmean |
The problem could have been and is most likely to have been caused by a bad/loose connection, this causes a high resistance and heat which can rapidly get worse, Remake the connection making sure it is tight and you may find that the problem is then cured. | ||
| Squish |
You said "Resistance checks to the stator seemed to spec out." I presume you mean the stator resistance values are within limits or are otherwise as expected, correct? Did you check each phase of the stator windings to ground as part of the resistance checks? I believe they should read "open" or infinite resistance to ground/chassis. A failing stator (e.g., heat related failure/burn) can sometimes short to ground and the result is high current draw. If you are lucky, Kevmean's post applies and you only have a loose connector / loose pin connection. | ||
| Jjbanks |
Thanks for your replies. Yes, I checked the stator to ground. All seemed good. Will recheck tonight though (suppose there is a chance the wire burnt through somewhere between the stator and the connector and it was off away from the metal when I checked). I also checked the wire connections, as that was my first thought. Is there a chance the VR could be shorted to ground? | ||
| Squish |
Try to wiggle the wires when you do the resistance checks. The wiring inside the engine/stator will not wiggle (possibly only a slight amount), but at this point, it can't hurt and might find an intermittent short to ground or an intermittent connection at the pin-socket joint. Also, on the VR: yes, there is a chance the VR could be bad - the exact mechanism of failing is tough to say (such as shorting to ground). Try to eliminate all other failure modes before replacing VR. | ||
| Dannybuell |
make sure you do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYEYGJfyBw&featur e=youtu.be | ||
| Jjbanks |
Thanks again for your comments. I recently tried to shake the hell out of the stator wires. There doesn't seem to be a bad wire. Battery seems to check out too. Thinking of pulling the trigger on a VR from Rick's (tried some of their posted VR tests, though I am not as confident in what I am testing there, it doesn't seem quite right). Will let you know if it fixes the problem. | ||
| Squish |
BTW – if you do need a new VR, you might consider upgrading to a better VR known as the “series-parallel” which generates only the power required to maintain system voltage. The stock VR is a “Shunt Regulator” which generates maximum power at all times and simply shunts the un-used power; the problem with a shunt-type regulator is that since they generate max power at all times, they also generate max heat load in the alternator stator. The series-parallel VR will reduce stator temps since it generates only the power required. Board members have had good results with the CE-605 SB Regulator. The only concern I could see in installing an aftermarket VR with your situation is that you are changing 2 things (1 - a new VR, 2 - a different VR) at one time while you are trying to solve this problem. Not the best way to solve a problem since changing multiple things introduces uncertainty. But the flip side…it is a chance to get away from the cheap stock VR and upgrade to a better VR which will help your stator, even though you do have the “rebuilt/wound stator and EBR fix.” I plan to do anything possible to lower the stator temps. Rotor with oil-hole jets and better VR. So far I have been lucky with my stator. | ||
| Jjbanks |
Thanks for your replies etc. I think I got it figured out/fixed... but I changed 2 things, so not 100% which it was. 1) I ended up putting in a new VR (from Rick's). 2) I replaced the burnt end of my old wires from my stator. To insure they wouldn't vibrate away from the crimping, I soldered the wire to the crimp connections (which I recycled from the harley harness 'fix'). I've put 100 miles on and no wire problems. Thanks again for you help. | ||
| Bubba_ |
I ended up putting in a new VR (from Rick's). Just curious, were you able to install the VR in the original place as the old one? | ||
| Shawns |
This is how I did mine  | ||
| Bubba_ |
Nice Shawn Looks just like it belongs there | ||
| Shawns |
Yeah woke up one morning and looked at it and started fabricating it before I went to work. Some cardboard, galvanized metal grease pencil, vise grips, hammer and some tin snips and voila there ya have it. | ||
| Yankeerl |
the vr sold by Rick's mounts in oem spot. i just replaced mine a month ago. still gets warm, but not like stock. kind of a PITA to get to bottom mounting nut | ||
| Bubba_ |
thanks yank so, rick's VR might be the best of both world's? am i right? you get the proper type VR that folks recommended here.. and it mounts w/o a custom install | ||
| Yankeerl |
from what i can tell yes, however i have only tested mine for about 2-300 miles. i went down on my fatboy 3 weeks ago, and am out for 2-3 months while ribs heal up. it looks identical to the stock unit, so make sure you have some thermal paste before taking it off. | ||
| Civi |
Jjbanks, Variable Resistors are usually very rough and tough components which don’t fail so easily so I’d ask you to reassess the diagnosis. There could however be a chance that it might have just lost the resistance values it was supposed to hold. Please also check the grounding of each and every individual component as that could possibly be an issue as well and grounding is usually the sneakiest of issues. Regards, Levent Civi http://blog.7pcb.com (Message edited by civi on June 22, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
What does a variable resistor have to do with a failing voltage regulator? Is this a language barrier thing, or is that a spam to try and raise the google page rank score for a site? | ||
| Bartone |
This just happened to me this week. I was riding around for a few days trying to figure out what that burning stench was. Finally took off the seat to find my wires very hot to the touch and the connectors melted to a point where i cant easily pull the plugs apart. Black goop has leaked out. I will be ordering replacement plugs soon and hopefully that is all thats required to fix it and i dont need a new VR I have the CE605 VR, "harness unfixed", ebr rotor. Its been on for about 12000 kms | ||
| Phwx2 |
Just found the same problem today. Did the ebr Rick fix winter 2013. New ic with 6.2. But still comm error so went looking and bunt my fingers. | ||
| Bartone |
Took a picture of what happened. Doesnt look too bad eh? I couldn't even pry the plugs apart they were melted together https://goo.gl/photos/k4HoDui5cKpKCViH7 | ||
| Dannybuell |
Can someone make me a forward bracket or template. I do not have the tools, to fab metal. Thank You in Advance. | ||
| Footstuck |
I recon I should have changed my battery sooner. Bought a new one yesterday and when I took the seat cowl off to fit it, the Stator plug wires were burnt. The male and female plugs are both cooked where the stator wires meet the loom. After reading this thred, it seems this plug suffers with bad connection problems. Is there a better plug for the job or is OE plug replacement the way to go? I fitted the oil jet fix and a new stator 3000miles back, and the HD fix was removed 500 miles back, as the bike was suffering starting problems. The plug connection was not burnt at that time. I Think the bad battery was the cause but not sure. Could the poor battery condition be the cause of cooked plug? Are the phases fused to protect the system from overload, or is that all done in the VR? Regards FS | ||
| Nuts4mc |
FS....what's between the battery and that plug?... I suggest you look into a new VR...or you'll be replacing battery and plug again...make sure you add a fuse (of sufficient amperage (30amps)) between the 12vdc output of the new VR and the (+) of the battery...just in case. Check your grounds or add some from the connection under the seat ( follow the (-) cable ) directly to the motor: scroll down for pix and P/N http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/674577.html?1336678989 | ||
| Footstuck |
Nuts4mc . . . Cheers buddy I double checked the stator output and resistance to ground on the stator phases and all good. With the new battery fitted today and checks done, no starting issues at all. It spun up really well, but will check ground cable and grease it up. Very relieved to be sure that no real damage done. New Mosfet VR ordered, and while i was under the seat, I tidied up the wiring which was a Spaghetti, and with the HD fix removed from the bike there's a fair bit more room for a decent fuse. Here's one for the gallery  | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Yummy...blacken 10 ga. guaranteed to break Ohms law...please do yourself a favor and SOLDER any new replacement wire(s) you may have to add...crimped butt connectors are for trailer lights, not charging systems. | ||
| Footstuck |
So no block connector, just solder and shrink wrap? I was thinking that way, but had hoped a better block connector was commonly used in its place even if it was a bit larger. | ||
| Footstuck |
The Post just turned up with this The block connector on the Mosfet are Spade connectors and about 8mm wide. they look up to the job, more so than the OE plug. I'm told that it is used widely on Honda's. I will make a decision once i have felt the pressure needed to close one of the connectors.  | ||
| Nuts4mc |
I believe the OEMs are these: Deutsch DTP 4 Pin Connector Kit 14-12 AWG, if you search Ebay you'll find them for about $15... the 8mm/5/16" spade shown are what is used on most Japanese bikes with Shindengen VRs. depending upon available "real estate" what ever will fit in the area and not add to a "daisy chain" of connections you should be good to go!...remember solder as well as crimp those terminals if you can...good luck | ||
| Footstuck |
Stator wires badly burnt. I had to cut them back to get wire good enough to make a solder join ant extended them by 5" then made that spade conector block onto them(crimped and soldered). The MOSFET fitted onto the same mount studs, but had to drop the tail base down and remove a small piece to get it back up and shave a very small amount off of the VR Finns to clearance it. All shrink wrapped and run it up. Battery voltage on idle to 3000rpm @ 13.9--14v constant. I didn't charge the new battery prior to test, but it's on the optimiser for an over nighter. All seems good👍 Just got to put the rest of it back together tail lights, cowl, seat and auxiliaries. | ||
| Phwx2 |
And my Bosch connector cooked once again. | ||
| Footstuck |
More voltage regulation problems since then I have now recited the regulator rectifier underneath the tile tidy and no problems since Posted on Friday, September 01, 2017 - 03:32 am: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only) Hi Simon The only other part of the electrical system to sort is the reg/rectifier. It's tucked within the forward section of the tail extension. I've moved mine to a position under the number plate mount and combined the mounting screws with some spacers to allow airflow over all surfaces of the RR. My first RR went berserk with no damage to the new windings I had recently fitted (though it was a concern!) The problem of inadequate airflow will not go away with the install of a new mosfet RR in the existing position Trust me on that On a 1500 mile ride to Italy an other parts, a spent a fair time riding with my right leg at right angles to the bike to allow air flow back into the air intake cooling duct, as my leg obscures the duct sufficiently to cut down the air flow and cause RR over heat. This caused hi voltage( up to 17v). In my case, I sussed the problem and since re-siting the RR I have had no further issues except having to Change the cooked battery (I fully charged it befor fitting it) To date, I get 14.4v on start up which falls to 13.8 or above for the most part of my riding. The obvious sign of the hi overcharge was that the LCD gauge shut down until I moved my leg position I'm sure that if I had not very quickly Sussed out the air flow issue it would have Cooked the new RR as well as the battery I don't yet know if the new position will be enough to save the new RR as it suffered overheat on 4/5 times during the holiday. I tried to watch it constantly while returning to the uk, but sometimes you have to have your eye on the road I'm off into France and Germany on the 7th for a 9 days of riding, so this should see it one way or the other. West Country windings supplied the MOSFET RR at a cost of £185 I think (I can't find the receipt) I used the Honda type connection blocks as it fried the buell connection blocks. I have just added a second extension loom using another block connector to re-site the RR under the tail tidy Off to France for 8 days on Friday so should know for sure if it's finally good |
