| Author | Message | ||
     Brokengq |
Stator tested well, regulator is working, new battery (HD), and having a hard time starting while hot. First start of the day is beautiful. Couple good sounding turnovers, and she's alive. Once I ride (distance doesn't matter), and let her sit for a few minutes (10-20) she doesn't want to start. Hard turnovers, sounds like she's firing, but doesn't start up. Usually have to try at least twice to fire it up, all while it flashes "system voltage" on the IC. Once its running, occasionally it'll die when I put it in gear or try to take off. Things I've tried/tested: Wiggling the ignition switch while its running, no change. Tested battery draw when starter is engaged, 11.8v. Rocked/wiggled the IC while running, no changes. Tried tugging slightly on the main harness while running, no changes. Also, I noted a decent amount of small (slightly larger than a pinhole) metal (nonferrous) flakes in my oil when I changed it, as well as some black non-metal flakes (epoxy?). The flakes were found in the oil, as well as the screen and the screen cover. (Can PM pics, phone does not allow). Unfortunately I'm thinking it's the sprag clutch, but I cannot verify due to my lacking of a crank locking tool. Just looking for some input. | ||
| Oldog |
Chris I hate to hear this, | ||
| Brokengq |
Feeling the same thing Oldog? | ||
| Brokengq |
Here's my question. Isn't the sprag made of ferrous metal? The pieces I've found appear to be mostly non-ferrous. I found one piece on the oil plug...rest got caught in the screen and filter. | ||
| Oldog |
Yes the sprag would be steel, aly could be from most any where, BTW hot starts are a bit problematic, I had a hard hot start this am,... between us each time I rotate the engine for service the screen will get checked and cleaned. just like new plugs and an oil change | ||
| Brokengq |
Well it could be that was the first time the screen was checked/cleaned. I recently met an 1125 mech that was trained by Buell and went to the classes for the bike...I may consult him. I think I'm going to put about 500 miles on the bike and see what the next oil change looks like. Hopefully a non-issue and the screen hadn't been cleaned. The pieces are small enough that I think if they were to end up somewhere bad they would just burn...If not, its a good excuse for a big bore kit. Oil is brand new right now (amsoil 20w50 syn) filter is new, and screen is clean. Will reinspect soon and see what turns up. Wish me luck. | ||
| Brokengq |
Just talked to the 1125 mech. Said the "debris" I'm seeing is normal, especially if the screen has never been cleaned (break in debris). Said my hot starting problem is probably due to the IAC motor running the engine rich on start, and it bases the a/f ratio on how the bike had been ridden the last few starts. Essentially if you're riding in traffic, its going to run rich to keep the bike alive and cool, and if you were on the highway for 50 miles its going to lean out for performance. So if it is trying to start rich, it could turn over a few times before it actually fires. These turnovers are drawing a LOT of power from the battery, and can cause a system voltage issue. Moral/tl;dr: starting the bike, letting it idle, shutting down, and trying to restart will cause issues. | ||
| Theothers2t |
When hot-starting, give it just a whiff of throttle and it will fire right up. I think this is a fairly common thing on the 1125. | ||
| Brokengq |
Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I'll try it out soon. On 4 wheels today. Tornado watches/warnings in effect today. | ||
| Oldog |
keep your head down Chris... | ||
| Brokengq |
Thanks Oldog, we'll try. | ||
| Brokengq |
Rode the bike all day today. Running great. No stalls, good starts, giving it a little gas on start. Except one start. Rode about 15 miles on the highway (~60mph). Stopped at a gas station to grab a drink. In and out. Cooling fans had just shut off when I got on the bike. Key on, kill switch on, hit the starter, 2 system voltage errors, but it fired and rode great from there. Got it home (its quiet here), found the bike is no longer playing r2d2 when its shut down. No beeps or whirs from the fuel pump. Let it sit for 10 minutes while I searched BadWeb for a similar issue. Put the bike in diag and saw 40 kpa of fuel pressure while off. Started the bike and it went to 500 kpa and idled down to 425 kpa. The starter also made a nice click when it engaged. I happened to be on the phone to my 1125 mechanic friend who heard it happen and wants to take a look at it next week. He agrees something is definitely wrong, but doesn't think its the sprag. Here's hoping. | ||
| Brokengq |
So I may have found a large part of my problem. I think my bike Running really rich. It popped in my head today when I pulled into the gas station. I went to pipe it up a bit rounding the corner into the gas station (clutch in, touch of throttle). The bike died (don't worry I played it off cool, said I didn't realize "how out of gas" I was). It sounded like it misfired though. Solid click from the spark plug (I could hear it try to fire) and nothing happened. So I filled it up, fired it up, and had no more issues. Then I got home. I sat next to the bike and enjoyed a cold one. I smelled gas. A lot of gas. So I decided to look at my old plugs. I changed them during my rotation last week. Nice and black around the ring, but the electrode looked good. For those that have ever worked on an old carb bike, when the bike died it made the same "pop" it does when you're trying to do a carb tune and its too rich. That "all too familiar" carb pop my old shovel makes. | ||
| Oldog |
You smelled gas because the tank is wrapped around that big hot engine, when you shut down low fuel you will feel it boil in the tank, and it will dribble out of the breather hose. Normal for a hot '08 low fuel and no insulation on the frame, '09-10 have the insulation factory installed, this is said to help. some have reported the frames being hot enough to be uncomfortable to touch, I can't say that although mine has been noticeably warm American Sport Bike sells the adhesive backed sheet. Mine has never poped on shut down, BTW the enrichment setting is displayed on the IC while in diagnostics for both front and rear cylinders. expressed as % of 100 ie 100% is the map value, 90 is map value less 10% Normal coolant temps at sea level run about 100-110 above the air temp under cruising loads on my bike. what is the at rest all off battery voltage for you bike right now? (Message edited by oldog on April 28, 2014) | ||
| Brokengq |
At rest systems off, 12.88VDC key on, 12.26VDC kill switch on, no change. Starter engaged ~9VDC Charging @ 1500rpm 14.15VDC Warmed to 150 degrees F, shut down (kill switch first, then key) checked again, battery dropped from 13.35VDC to 13.17 VDC fairly quickly. Smoked a cigarette, checked again, 13.10 VDC and holding. Key on, diag mode on, scrolled through twice (just looking) key back off 12.75VDC That was the first start of the day. Will check again in a half hour. (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 28, 2014) | ||
| Oldog |
New Battery? 12.8 at rest no load is good the batt light comes on at less than 12v buss voltage. Still getting low volts on the hot start... | ||
| Brokengq |
That was a cold start BTW Oldog. Bit of rain today, and working both jobs. On all 4 today. I'm wondering if I don't have a short in the starter wire somewhere. Would make sense, to me at least. Would explain the mysterious cut offs too. Its unfused. | ||
| Oldog |
The starter motor if shorted will not get better over time but i would expect to fail out right and quickly, than said Chris, hard starts I kinda understand, grindy-bangy-crunchy starts no so much My suggestion visit when you can we can compare notes. | ||
| Brokengq |
I'm going to go see my 1125r mechanic friend Friday. If he can figure out a solution I'm going to try it. If not, I have a week off of work coming up in about a week and a half. I'll definitely take you up on that. I'll trailer it down there. | ||
| Shawns |
If ya need a starter I have one | ||
| Brokengq |
Appreciate it Shawns. I'll let you know. | ||
| Shawns |
No worries just let me know | ||
| Brokengq |
4 hours after warm up 12.85VDC at rest. Doesn't seem like a systems off draw... ***edit*** Maybe it is. I disconnected the negative lead from my battery and hooked my test light to the negative lead. Touched the light to the negative post of the battery and it lit up bright...time to pull fuses. (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 28, 2014) ***edit 2*** Ok false alarm I think. It went completely out when I pulled the battery fuse. It dimmed when I pulled the ECM fuse, which I expected. I figured the ECM drew a little power constantly. It started flickering just a little when I pulled the key switch fuse though, which I found...interesting. I tugged on the wires behind the switch and couldn't make it flicker like that again. (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 28, 2014) | ||
| Shawns |
I would take the bottom of the switch and inspect it. | ||
| Brokengq |
So I did a bunch of digging on my break today, and looky what I found. Its an unresolved post from 2010 of someone having the EXACT same starting issue I'm having. His starter makes the same sounds as mine. Its almost eerie. He posted a video and I snagged the link. I've been trying to video my bike doing this, but every time I try it ends up poor quality, or decides not to do it then. Here ya go. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_p layer&v=HWoOLUOpSjM His starting issues are much more severe than mine. I've never had to try for more than 20 seconds to get it started. But its doing the same thing, and making the same sounds. Link to his post: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/594906.html?1286159200 (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 29, 2014) | ||
| Froggy |
From the comments on that video: " it ended up being a stripped starter gear. They swapped it out and after, it started up beautifully every time." | ||
| Brokengq |
I hope he means the gear on the starter, and not the gear in the case. Although I suppose if its the gear in the case it would account for the metal I'm seeing. Regardless I guess I'm pulling the starter and inspecting it. I should be able to see a bit of the internal gear through the opening the starter goes in. (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 29, 2014) | ||
| Joseb |
Hey Brokengq, that post and video are mine from when I had my CR, Froggy just reached out to me on Reddit for some info, figured I'd post here to make it easier. My CR was having the issue shown in the video almost every day, cold or hot start, but not every start, sometimes it would fire up right away. After it annoyed me enough I took it to the dealer (had factory warranty still) and they determined that it was the starter motor, it had some stripped / chipped teeth and when it was spinning it would slip and just not catch on anything. Once they replaced the starter motor, the CR fired up quickly every time, hot or cold. Hopefully this helps with your issue. And I'm just to add here that I miss my CR after coming back to these boards and looking around again lol. Good luck, if you have any other questions, please let me know! | ||
| Brokengq |
Thanks so much! That's awesome! I'm having that SAME issue. Its been driving me nuts! I'm going to pull my starter asap and check it out. Sorry to hear you don't have the CR anymore, and I'm so thankful you chimed in. Here's a short video of my bike trying to start. Its not as severe as yours was, but its the same sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11jbocwGJII I hope that link works. (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 29, 2014) (Message edited by brokenGQ on April 29, 2014) | ||
| Brokengq |
Ok. Starter pulled. Gear is definitely worn, but not to the point I would feel it is slipping. Shawns is hooking me up with a new starter, going to give it a try. Starter gear in the bike looks great. Used an inspection mirror through the opening for the starter, no wear on it at all. It spins freely in one direction, and very smoothly. Locks as soon as you move it in the other direction, can't get it to slip. So I guess that rules the sprag out. The detents in the starter feel a little rough when you spin it. Not terrible, but not perfect. There are a couple of burrs on the gear on the starter as well, enough to catch your finger if you run it up and down the peaks of the gear. When I pulled the starter out initially there were a couple of metal flakes on the gear as well. Exact shape and size of the flakes I found in my oil screen. Its definitely wearing, and I believe it is the cause of the metal I'm seeing in the oil. |
