| Author | Message | ||
     Stevdar |
Hey wondering if anyone has run their bikes on ethanol fuel like E85 or E95 and do you need to change anything like hoses etc. to do it? | ||
| Matteson |
Yuck. I wouldn't try it. No scientist here but I can read the manual and it doesn't say that is cool. | ||
| Cataract2 |
The fuel system is not designed to handle that level. 10% is the level it is designed to handle. If you try anything higher, you are on your own. With that said, you also have to consider the fuel maps are not designed to handle that level of ethanol and the bike will run like crap. | ||
| Jdugger |
Don't do it. I've run race gas that uses ethanol at a 13% level to oxygenate, and the fuel pump stays pretty busy. That's with a tune specifically for it. The high-ethanol fuels are good for high compression motors, but cause all kinds of grief in a fuel system not specifically designed for it in street applications. | ||
| Stevdar |
I am planning on racing the bike so it will be at about 14.5:1, i was wondering if anyone had changed some hoses in the fuel system and made it work, otherwise what sort of oxygenated unleaded would be recommended? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I'd assume that anything that touches fuel that's not metal will need to be replaced with parts that are ethanol-compatib | ||
| Jdugger |
For racing, I would recommend Sunoco GTX 260 (100) or GTX 260 Plus (104). I ran the 100 octane all last year on a high compression build with very good results after mapping for it. VP sells this same fuel as VP-100 Streetblaze and you can sometimes find it at gas stations as it's actually street legal. This year I'm going to map for VP T4, mostly because I can buy it in 5-gallon cans at the track from a reliable vendor, whereas with the Sunoco fuels it was either 55-gallon drums or from the pump at the racetrack, and wasn't reliably available. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
If you're racing it, find out who is going to be vending at the track. As Jdugger mentions, availability is key, and if you have a good trackside vendor source will make your weekends easier. That being said, I race mine on pump gas. | ||
| Jdugger |
> That being said, I race mine on pump gas. He mentioned a 14.5:1 compression ratio. That's really high for pump. I raced my stock bike on 93 pump gas this past weekend, too. But, no way I'd put that in a high compression race motor. | ||
| Rodrob |
I run VP 100 or Sunoco 260 in my 1190RS race bike. The specific gravity of the fuels are close enough to not require a re-map. One thing to keep in mind for Buells, is the distillation rates, due to the fuel in frame/heat. I would like to try VP U4.4, but it evaps at lower temps than the VP 100. | ||
| Stevdar |
Do you think these fuels would be ok at a comp that high? I was thinking of ethanol fuel because of the cooling properties it has, aswell as the increased power | ||
| Jdugger |
Ethanol prevents detonation. I used VP100 and Sunoco 260 (100) on my 14.8:1 high compression motor successfully. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Right, I wasn't saying it would be a good choice for him. Just throwing it out there. | ||
| Stevdar |
Really ok vp100 it is then, Jdugger are you running stock rods ? Who made those pistons? Are you running stock cams? Trying to get comp between to 14.5:1 and under 15:1, standard valves, little porting and smooth the combustion chamber, standard cam, tuned length exhaust, and maybe some velocity stacks and a different fuel map. What sort of power do you guys think can i expect? | ||
| Jdugger |
My 1125r race build made 150HP on the builder's dyno and 155 on my tuner's. It had ARP rod bolts, but I believe used stock rods. I know it used stock pistons, cams and valves. The high compression was achieved by decking the heads, and came to 14.8:1. No other modifications were made. With a good fuel map and the EBR full system, I think my numbers would be something you could get very close to or do a little better. | ||
| Stevdar |
And do you have beryllium copper seats? | ||
| Jdugger |
Stock. | ||
| Stevel |
Stevdar, Beryllium seats are only used with titanium valves. Jdugger, Adding additional mechanical compression by itself is not usually beneficial. CR is a misnomer. True compression pressure is a product of intake valve closure. High mechanical compression ratios are a band aid to compensate for late valve closure. Late closure (long duration cam timing) is also not ideal, but is commonly used to moderate valve acceleration rates to prevent valve float and general valve train failure. Engine tuning is a very long set of compromises. It is unrealistic to think that a single change anywhere in the engine design will generate power gains on its own and when power gains are achieved, it is usually at the cost of longevity. | ||
| Jdugger |
You know a lot more about motors than I do. I know that the step up in compression and careful reassembly made a very significant difference in the power of my motor. | ||
| Stevel |
Jdugger, The purpose of the compression stroke is to raise the temperature of the charge to just below fuel flash temperature and to gather the charge into the smallest possible volume to promote efficient flame propagation. Raising the mechanical CR increases the charge heating, reduces the end volume at TDC, increases bearing loads, increases cylinder head heating, impedes the reflected vacuum from the exhaust during valve overlap and sharpens the leading edge of the vacuum signal upon intake valve opening. Some of these are good, some are bad. Other steps must be taken to reduce and compensate for the negatives. If these steps are not taken, the net effect of the CR change may be zero or in fact negative. As a rule, it is very important to define the problem before applying solutions. The 1125 engine design is already state of the art, so design change gains here will be difficult. I respect everyone's perception, including yours. I have done quite a bit of research in defining faults in the design and there are some. I am building a motor currently and making several changes, but rather than identifying them now, I would very much like to hear from the folks here on the areas they think need improvement. | ||
| Jdugger |
Steve, My motor was a "superstock" DSB-spec build. I did not build it, I had a reputable builder build the motor for me. My expertise on this bike is more with the chassis than inside the motor, for sure. The only changes from stock were rod bolts and decked heads, raising the compression to 14.8:1. The motor was blueprinted and carefully assembled, but again, from stock parts. The motor produced 150HP on their dyno, and 155 on one here. The 1125r motor in stock trim is detuned considerably, IMHO. One of the reasons I only did the things above was to maintain superstock race eligibility. The rules have changed this year, and that motor wouldn't be superstock legal, so I'm doing a few more things and running superbike classes only. |
