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Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 12:37 am: | 
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SprintST, did you check to see if that clutch cover is mounted correctly in that diagram?
Because if it's not, then the bike is crap and we shouldn't buy it.
Just saying.... |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 12:41 am: |
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Rogue_biker, as negative as someone is, there is no need to resort to personal attacks and calling someone an a-hole. We try to keep this forum civil and family friendly, please refrain from that behavior in the future.  |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 06:41 am: |
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And . . it's demeaning to those of us who really are assholes . . . I mean I've raised to to an art form and don't need the light-weight assholes diluting the breed. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 08:52 am: |
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Well as a guy who is sometimes passionate to a fault about things. I tried to hate on the Hero partnership it turns out you can't. Why, well just look at the end result it's beautiful and it's got teeth. I can also tell ya I don't think we got to the moon, but I will ask ya one thing Cherry Bomb and a truthful answer would be nice. How's life in the cheap seats pal? |
T_man
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 11:08 am: |
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Ok, I have more pertinent topic re Erik's latest; now that the RX is officially out there - where should we be discussing this new beast? I find myself swapping between this board, the 'EBR' board and finally 'Buell & EBR in the News' board to see who's saying what. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 01:36 pm: |
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HMM how long till some one has hacked the ecm and has tuning info up on badweb on how to integrate the traction control and power out put to the new tuning.
Oh Cherry Froggy Court and bunch of us could be called fan boys I have one of every thing only lacking another S2 and Blast Till the EBRs came out
leave the jealous European attitude at the door. We don't care a __ what you think of America. Or need approval from you |
Johndb
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 03:49 pm: |
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Quote: "haha, what a ridiculous forum. no critics, no sceptics, just mainstream-blabla..."
@Cherry bomb - Why are you on here if it's so ridiculous? |
Captjoe
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 05:44 pm: |
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I wonder why they hung one of the cans above the swingarm. Doesn't that go against Erik's famous mass centralization theory?
(Message edited by captjoe on October 20, 2013) |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 06:11 pm: |
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I wonder why they hung one of the cans above the swingarm. Doesn't that go against Erik's famous mass centralization theory?
From the Cycle News article, “Our engineers(EBR) found that a secondary resonator has a large benefit to helping a V-twin make power and mid-range. The resonator provides an opportunity for a quarter-wave tuner that adds mid-range performance while meeting noise regulations.”
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Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 08:58 pm: |
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I honestly think Ducati has everyone beat on engine design with their new Panigale clean sheet designed motor.
However, for EBR to get similar power from the basic Helicon engine is pretty damn good to me. And if EBR's fuel consumption and emissions claim really is true, then they will have Ducati beat on overall engine performance.
BTW, if you look at most sportbike exhausts today, all of them have their catalysts under the engine with a small stub-like muffler on the side. I'm guessing this is one of the few ways they can get the horsepower and still pass noise and exhaust gas emissions now. It's way more stricter than it was back in 2008 when the first Helicon was released.
I'm reading the Facebook tag on the 1190RX and it's just amazing to me how some people just hate Buell. If this bike were a BMW or a Honda, it would praised as the second coming. People are still complaining about the XB12R Thunderstorm motor! WTF? They love the BMW Boxer twins and the Guzzi 1200 aircooled Vtwins but hate the 1203cc Thunderstorm. LOL! |
Sir_wadsalot
| | Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 08:45 am: |
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A little devil's advocate- (Don't beat me up, but understand the opposition!)
People love the BMW boxer twins and the Guzzis because they aren't in "Sport Bikes", and I don't wanna hear about the HP-4 boxer, as it would run circles around most any XB. It's also a ton more money- not comparable. Harley's limitations earned the Xb's the rep they have with the "mainstream" sportbike population, from which I come. That's why I love the 1125R so much, I can brag on Buell, and throw down on anybody's CBGixxeR1whateverthahellRR and impress them. No excuses. That's exactly why Erik went racing with the RS FIRST! He knows he has to break out of "Buells are wierd and underpowered" reputation. The perfect place to do that is racing. If your kit sucks, you will lose. If your motor weighs twice as much and makes half the power, you will lose. The current middling success in AMA is making a small dent in that reputation. People like me screaming EBR's praises into the internet can't hurt. WSBK competition- that will be the make or break stage. There's been too much questionable AMA/HD history with Buell racers...as boner inducing as the DSB championchip was, the bike so overpowered the 600's that no one outside Buell respects that title- we may as well never have won it. "You beat a bunch of 600's with a 1200. HD and the AMA cheated again. Ghey." I have actually had that conversation with people. WSBK will be the thing that makes or breaks EBR. Unbiased competition, if there is bias, it's always a claim leveled at Ducati.... but let us get middling results in WSBK, top ten- even consistant 10th place finishes, it'll be a massive boost to EBR. Lord knows I hope we go in and trounce them right off the bat!
Devil's Advocate out-
Everyone hates the sportster motor, thus the "Buell Haters". But screw them! You can't change someone else's mind, all you can do is show them a fantastic bike and let it worm it's way into their little black hearts. That, or kick their ass at the track!
@Cherrybomb-
I wasn't talking a weekend to replace the exhaust, I was talking about doing a valve job. It's a bear.
Also, see how I criticized there? That's arguable, constructive criticism. The valve maintenance is harder than most bikes. Debateable fact. The Thunderstorm was a slug compared to most sportbike engines. Fact- it was replaced by something lighter and stronger. Some of the guys on the forum like the Thunderstorm better than the Helicon- you can debate it. I really like the idea of it on a Ully, just not on a focussed sportbike. Debateable.
If you're going to criticise Buells on a Buell site, be constructive. Bitching about the direction the rotor is facing isn't really helpful. So the Beemer's up ten HP? The EBR's up 10 or 15 ft lbs, which will be more useable on the road. I don't recall any S1000RR teams beating team Hero in AMA this year with all that power....as far as price- give it five years. Mass production will bring down the price. When the RX is 16 or 17K, then you can really complain, as it will really dig into S1K-RR sales. Maybe it would help if you talked BMW into not quitting WSBK?
And of course the Pegasus team is gonna break stuff, that's racing, the RS is an R&D protptype, a development mule for the RX and a race homologation special. Everyone seems to understand that but you.
Stop being the dour, negative German. It's too much of a stereotype! I know you've had at least an Xb in the past, what's with the Negative Nancy? |
Wymaen
| | Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 01:12 pm: |
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+1 for the use of 'ghey' |
Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 05:44 pm: |
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The power comment, Ducati and BMW raised the bar on dyno power. But the truth of the matter is, you can't use much of that on the street. Even at the track you REALLY need traction control.
In all honesty, my 1125R will easily be in the 120 rwhp range. But I rarely use on the street, even in the backroads. There isn't enough room to do that, or I can't do it without big risk of going to jail. In Germany, I don't know if you can really use 150 rwhp easily without risking so much life and limb.
Having said that, you NEED 185 bhp just to run with the top dogs of this class. This is one reason why those 675's and 800cc class sportbikes now coming out are so popular. You get the adrenaline rush of a big bore bike without the excess.
I remember when people were going crazy about the Hayabusa putting out 160 rwhp. The CBR1000RR puts out close to that at the rear wheels while weighing over 100 lbs. less and that's considered "not fast enough"! |
Sir_wadsalot
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 08:29 am: |
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I take back my defense of the "haterz". Some of the comments on the web are just friggin ignorant and out there, there's no excuse from some of the mental diahareheal being spewed.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/erik-buell-r acing-1190rx-2/#comment-345710
I wrote a book in reply- it's up for moderation. There was anger and language, my post prolly won't make it through.
You were right (whomever I was countering) about the hateful comments. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 03:54 pm: |
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Some of those folks show themselves by their comments about the ZTL . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRE_HZnI9c
The "underslung" exhaust that "Buell dumped" could accurately be labeled the one that Ducati and Yamaha "borrowed".
Small minds are easily entertained. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 04:22 pm: |
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quote:Some of those folks show themselves by their comments about the ZTL . . .
I was reading the other day about how the ZTL brake would make the bike pull hard to the right  |
Satori
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 04:50 pm: |
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I saw a post yesterday on the web where the poster said EBR won't ever go anywhere, because Erik lacks resources....I just had to laugh. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 04:57 pm: |
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It's amazing how many motorcycle "experts" are ~3 years behind the curve on this stuff. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 05:21 pm: |
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The brake pulls to the right... lol!
The real issue with ztl is heat and to some extent component wear. If one is going to complain about it that should be the reason and frankly I want a picture of their rotor before I acknowledge them.
It is, however, a very legitimate compliant of the brake if one is racing.
For the street? Please. Ztl is fine there. |
Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 11:36 pm: |
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The problem I had with my two bikes that used ZTL brakes:
The brake pad deposited stuff on my rotor that made it pulse. So at 15k miles I had to replace the rotor.
The lever travel is too much. I know I have to bleed it correctly, and I believe I've figured this one out already on proper procedure. But it requires frequent and regular bleeding. Of course this is due to the crappy master cylinder used.
The latter could have been addressed by using a higher quality master cylinder. The overheating that track riders experienced could be avoided by using a thicker rotor. Both of these are not difficult fixes but Buell needed to break up with HD to get it right, and these issues and others that leave impressions and create hearsay that become epic urban legends among the biker population. As we know by now, perception plays a very large part on the popularity of any product. |
Pmjolly
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 11:47 pm: |
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Jim, when are you gonna teach me to go fast enough to warp my brake rotors? |
Torquehd
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 01:40 am: |
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I was reading the other day about how the ZTL brake would make the bike pull hard to the right
oh, that's why the bike is so conservative.
rogue, i doubt that the pulsations in the rotor are due to deposits on the rotor. Pulsation in the lever is a telltale sign of warpage.
regarding soft lever feel, that's usually a symptom of road gunk depositing on the brake caliper pistons. this happens to all motorcycles, that's why new bikes have rock-solid brakes and old ones don't. the problem can be easily corrected by cleaning the pistons. i put a how-to video on youtube that has helped a couple people.
(Message edited by torquehd on October 23, 2013) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 08:19 am: |
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The ZTL pulsing is generally not related to a warped rotor... Mine did it, and I put a run out gauge on it, and it was not warped.
The replacement EBR rotor solves the problem, for reasons I personally can't explain, other than observing that my original factory rotor was pulsing badly and was not warped.
(Message edited by reepicheep on October 23, 2013) |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 10:02 am: |
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The pulsing is usually from deposits left on the rotor from composite pads such as Lyndall |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 11:39 am: |
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Agreed on the pulsing diagnosis. I actually don't ever warp rotors, I wear them out. They are literally black at the edges, and every shade of golden, blue and purple from the heat.
When someone complains about a pulsing rotor and their rotors are shiny silver, the reason is almost universally because they aren't using the brakes hard enough for the pad they have selected. This is made worse by the OEM pad on this bike being a pretty high performance pad suitable for even track day use. So, when used for commuting or gentle street riding, it leaves the deposits that lead to the pulsing.
And, yes, the MCs on the 1125r bikes stock are absolutely horrible. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 11:41 am: |
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> Jim, when are you gonna teach me to go fast enough to warp my brake rotors?
The answer you seek is found with more time on the gas, grasshopper. |
Torquehd
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 01:49 pm: |
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How many thousandths of runout did you measure? you were using a dial indicator?
I can't remember exactly the HD spec, it was like 3 thousands or something, but you can feel pulsation with virtually any measurable runout.
(Message edited by torquehd on October 23, 2013) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 02:05 pm: |
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Yes, I was using a dial indicator mounted on the bike. I don't recall the runout, but it was within spec, and on par with the replacement rotor that did not pulse. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 02:40 pm: |
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There's a difference between pulsing from warpage, felt in the lever (as in the lever pushing your hand open-closed-open-closed as you squeeze the fluid against a warped piece of metal) and pulsing from deposits which don't affect the lever pull, but you feel in your body as the bike slows more...then less...then more...then less as the deposits pass through the pads.
I feel deposit pulsing on my Ulysses because I simply don't work that bike hard enough on the street to get the pads up to temp. my CR...has a tendency not to pulse, because I do push it quite a bit harder due to its capabilities and the ease of access to those abilities. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 04:45 pm: |
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The other dead giveaway is that a warped rotor will lead to excessive lever travel (as it pushes the pistons further out).
The only time I had a warped rotor on a motorcycle is after I let a Harley dealer change the front tire on my M2 (no joke). They bent the crap out of it, just about killed me when I went out the driveway. |
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