| Author | Message | |||
     Robertb1958 |
I have been very happy with my low mileage 2008 1125r - except that the HPe exhaust that came on it was just too loud for the neighborhood and long rides. Bike came with a Power Commander V tuned to the HPe. Dyno for the previous owner yielded 120.5 HP/69 ft lb. Bought a Barker exhaust, replaced the ECU/PC-V with an EBR ECM for the Barker. Well, it is quieter, especially with the insert. but I lost 3 ft-lb, now have 120HP/66.4ft-lb. The previous tune had the AFR right on the "line". The new ECU/Exh has the AFR generally in the high 12's. Also, I noted that: 1. The PC-V tune had the oxygen sensor unplugged. 2. I still have the original air filter in it. Will get the K&N. 3. My air box was modded with mesh intake around the fuel filler, and no inner cover. The bike does run a little smoother with the EBR ECU, and the fan comes on sooner. Should I get an inner air cleaner cover? Should I put the PC-V back in and lean it out a little? If I put the PC-V back in, should I disconnect the 02 sensor (per PC-V) or leave connected (per EBR)? Just don't want to spend another large amount of money for the programmable EBR to chase a couple of ft-lb torque. BTW- the lower curve is with the insert (-7hp/3ft-lb)
(Message edited by Robertb1958 on October 09, 2013) | |||
| Thefleshrocket |
My '08 with a Barker and EBR ECM dynoed at 122rwhp on the portable dyno that was at MotoGP in Indy a couple years back. Another Badwebber with an '09 and an exhaust put down almost identical power. I think the 130rwhp that magazine testers were getting back in '08 was from optimistic dynos or specially "prepped" bikes. Can you actually tell the power difference with your butt dyno? If not, don't worry about it unless you have money to throw at chasing dyno numbers. | |||
| Deanh8 |
My bike with barker and ebr ECM made 120whp on a dyno jet. It ripped pretty good and ran strong. | |||
| Mortbike |
I sold my CR a few months ago but I had a Barker with EBR Barker specific ECM. Bike ran very strong but it improved substantially in every way when I had it dyno tuned with a PCV over the EBR ECM. Major difference I would never have wanted to live without. Can't remember the thread I put it under but you can likely find it and the dyno graphs if you search. Mort | |||
| D_adams |
Plug the O2 sensor back in. Stock air filter works just fine as long as it's clean. I'd put a stock inner cover back on it for the ram air effect at speed (80+ mph). It should have dyno'd higher with it off by 3-5 hp. 120 hp at the wheel is a bit low unless it's all stock. Any chance of you getting it set up all stock and running it back to back on the same dyno? IE; stock ecm and exhaust, etc. and then swap out for the aftermarket parts and run it again. Run either one or the other for the ecm, I can't see the value of band-aiding the EBR race ecm if it's tuned for the exhaust you have. Seems kinda silly to me. If EBR recommended you run both O2 sensors, that's what I'd do. They designed and built the bike, not power commander's people. | |||
| Sinnister |
I got 131hp and 74ft-lbs when I got on a dyno last year. I have a Barkers, Race ECM, K&N. | |||
| Ridenusa4l |
mine is bone stock (sans K&N), and it dyno'd on a dynojet dyno at MMI (friend went there) at about 130hp and 73 ft. lbs. Jake | |||
| Ridenusa4l |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/444658.html Jake | |||
| Blower1 |
My -08 1125R results bone stock in two three years ago was 120 rw hp (SAE) and in same Dynojet dyno with K&N ait filter , stock exhaust Twin Motorcycles tune & stacks 130 rw hp (SAE). Three weeks ago on another dyno:  That is DIN hp. | |||
| Dwp138 |
I used to race an ATV. Me and some other guys were building and tinkering with our motors all the time. With that came tons of dyno runs. What I have experienced , is that unless you create the perfect controlled environment for the dyno , you will see some funny things with your dyno results. Also each dyno will read a little different from another. Try to get more than one run in obviously. The dyno is a tool for tuning , not bragging. The highest number isnt not what tuners are generally looking for. The curve is more important.. | |||
| Dwp138 |
...and you will probably see a smoother line with slightly better gains by putting the air box back together. | |||
| Robertb1958 |
Thanks all, I am not too concerned with 10 HP at 10,000 RPM (hardly ever up there), but it seems like the bike should have a little more torque across the rpm range that I use. +4 ft-lb/69total is a 6% increase, which I think I would notice. Going from PC-V+HPe exhaust setup to the EBR ECM+Barker definitely did not increase the butt felt power, though the bike certainly is more pleasant to ride now. Bike is plenty fast, I'm not going to loose much sleep worrying about this. At least I am not running dangerously lean. | |||
| Blower1 |
You should try the Twin Motorcycles velocity stacks and tune if you want more torque. In the dyno chart below are stock -08 1125R dyno run and same bike with K&N air filter, Twin Motorcycles velocity stacks and tune.  | |||
| Torquehd |
i find that dyno chart hard to believe. most 1125's only put out 60-70 ftlbs, this one is putting out more torque than the 1190. | |||
| Cherry_bomb |
maybe it's because these are newton-meters?  | |||
| Torquehd |
ah. very clever. | |||
| D_adams |
That one works out to about 71 ft/lbs, so it's average. | |||
| Sir_wadsalot |
I think the primaries (headers) are the choke point, and you're not going to see big gains unless you run a full exhaust. | |||
| D_adams |
From what I was told about 3 years ago, the theoretical limit for flow equates to about 150 hp max on stock headers. I assume this is at the wheel, but what exhaust it would take to get that, I really don't know. EBR's test mule made 143 hp with one of mine on it with stock headers. The same motor made 128 with a stock exhaust, again, their dyno and bike. I _think_ the average for a full header setup (ie; full race) only made 145 on a stock engine. Add some engine mods to it and then it will start making more. Stock headers are not a choke point until you get up over 145-150 hp. I'd like to find out what an 1190 kit would do with a set of stock 1125 headers on it, maybe with the stock exhaust and then one of mine for comparison. I can see this is going to get expensive to find out. | |||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Header tuning is an interesting science, I think modern fuel injected cars run smaller primaries on street cars than back in the day to get better torque numbers...bigger primaries on drag motors for that peak number. Not to theoretically argue with the expert. Doesn't the ad copy for the 1190 kit say you get 10ish hp throughout the range on a stock setup? You could be, and probably are correct, but my observation has been that most of the bikes makeing over 130hp have had full systems....and if the EBR number you give is 150hp at the crank and not the wheel, that falls in line with my theory here. The Helicon is already designed with midrange in mind, and the aftermarket/EBR header primaries are much larger than stock, I assume it's to fatten up the top end & feed that peak number. An interesting debate...could you find out if their theoretical HP number is at the crank or the wheel? | |||
| Torquehd |
damn. guess i'm going to have to shell out that extra 1800 for EBR exhaust... thats sucks. i wish you could make exhaust out of carbon fiber. it'd be cool to experiment with making your own. | |||
| Torquehd |
dude seriously? there are NO lightweight alternatives to metal exhaust pipes? I've been trying to find an ultra high-temp epoxy for carbon fiber and i can't find anything that would withstand anywhere near exhaust gas temps. | |||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Didn't the Britten motorcycle have a carbon fiber exhaust? | |||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Ok , I just checked and it didn't. | |||
| Torquehd |
not the whole thing, maybe a muffler cover. in the video, i remember john or one of his helpers working on the exhaust pipe flange with an angle grinder. most "high temp" laminate resins are only rated for 400-600 F... it would need to be 1200+ F to be able to handle exhaust gas... or have a thermo-reflective coating lining the inside... i wonder if that option exists. | |||
| D_adams |
Not an expert here, just a lucky guess or 2. I haven't read the ad for the kit recently, I assume you're correct on their published numbers. The 1125 made 146 hp at the crank in stock trim, that equates to roughly 122-125 hp at the wheel on average with a high of maybe 132 or so. Just depended on the day it was built and how it was broke in. I'd bet with an all stock setup, it should put out close to 160+ hp at the crank easily, or 140 at the wheel with a stock exhaust. Add an exhaust, at least 10 more hp, depending on who's it is, etc. 150 hp at the wheel with their kit and a full exhaust isn't out of the question by any stretch, getting up over that will be harder though. Mine is at 140 with a full system, it started at 122-123 stock, so it was on the lower side of average initially. Deanh8 did his build and hit around 150, but there was more than one change at a time, so it's not an apples/apples comparison to what he started with. There may have been other factors contributing to the low initial hp readings, I don't know. Either way, he's up almost 30 hp now from where it was. I think Inconel is lighter, but it's exorbitantly priced, ie; extremely expensive. Titanium is the same way, expensive and brittle as well. I only work with 304 stainless since it's readily available and easy enough for me to work with. | |||
| Tq_freak |
I think Inconel is lighter, but it's exorbitantly priced, Inconel is bad@ss stuff can withstand wicked high temps as well as decent chemical resistance. but Dean you are right, I think right now its about $60+ a pound | |||
| Torquehd |
and basically unmachinable for the shade-tree mechanic. | |||
| Ogobracing |
To add additional fuel to the discussion, it is really hard to compare dyno numbers to dyno numbers from one dyno to another, and this is especially true if you change from one manufacturer to another. If you have a baseline from a dyno use the same dyno to see the change, which is what they do when they dyno tune it. It's really hard to compare dyno done in shop A to dyno done in shop B. |
Dyno