| Author | Message | ||
     Torquehd |
Well I'm planning my motor build for when I get back to the house in a couple months. Looking for feedback from you motorheads who have experience with these motors. The endstate is a motor with a lot more midrange and upper end that will be streetable and track-savvy, but reliable enough that I won't need to tear it down but once a winter. I'd like to upgrade whatever I can in order for the motor to be as reliable as feasibly possible. Parts I plan on installing: 1190 big bore kit 1190 ECM ARP/EBR Conrod fasteners EBR clutch springs Possibly EBR exhaust I'm also looking at the Crower cams (have emailed the company), but it seems like they're more for drag/WOT/max rpm purposes. Anyone know about these? Since I'm planning on splitting the cases, I'd like to have the crank balanced and welded but I've never done this before - any suggestions or anything else to consider? I'd like to make whatever upgrades I can while the motor is torn down. Any other suggestions? | ||
| Jdugger |
You going to stay on pump gas? I don't think any crank work will be necessary. | ||
| Torquehd |
Yes, I want this engine to be street friendly. I'm also planning on retaining the belt drive setup. I would also like to look at upgrading the suspension (springs/valves), but I don't know enough about it. I've only been on the track twice so I don't know what's right and what's wrong yet. (Message edited by torquehd on October 07, 2013) | ||
| Kesnei |
I'm looking at doing a similar build-out to my 1125r I just got, why the Crower Cames and Conrad Fasteners? | ||
| Torquehd |
I've decided against the crower cams, at least for now. They are designed for WOT/max power at max RPM. Not so much for midrange power. The connecting rod fasteners are insurance, as the stock fasteners "are a liability over 11k rpm" according to EBR themselves. The EBR 1190 ECM is set to redline right at 11k, so it's just a peace of mind thing for me. | ||
| Kesnei |
Which ones are you getting? I didn't see that on EBR's store page. | ||
| Torquehd |
the con rod fasteners are not listed, you have to email them. | ||
| Kesnei |
Now that you say that I remember reading a post with that in it on this forum. Durrrrr silly me. | ||
| Jdugger |
I'm not convinced anything other than a "stock" 1190 kit is a good idea. "Racing" parts inherently make a bike less street friendly. | ||
| Deanh8 |
Yeah why even bother with the bottom end. I'll let u know how mine holds up but I don't think many people have rod problems | ||
| Slaughter |
There's a lot that can be done with stock forks and shock ESPECIALLY if you have a suspension guy at the track you go to. Proper springs, valves, oil (and possibly adjusting fork oil level) Showa forks are such a known quantity that ANY road racing fork company can set you up | ||
| Torquehd |
I got a response from EBR Tech, the 1190 big bore kit runs at 13:1, while the 1190RS runs at 13.6:1. I am considering getting the heads machined to achieve closer to 13.5:1. It's been awhile since I took ERP (engine rebuild and performance) at MMI, i'll have to see if I still have my notes on measuring valve to piston clearance. if not, you can learn how to do virtually anything on youtube and forums. the bottom end is just a peace of mind thing. i'll sleep better at night knowing i have a bulletproof crank. that's worth a couple hundred dollars in my mind. | ||
| Jdugger |
The crank can handle it. I'm stock and I'm putting out around 150HP on a DSB-build. | ||
| 2kx1 |
How big can the motor go with a stroker crank? | ||
| Deanh8 |
This engine can be stroked to a 1235cc or 1328cc | ||
| Torquehd |
i don't think i'd be interested in stroking my motor, but just out of curiousity, does anyone sell stroker cranks for the 1125? i haven't found hardly any commercially available performance parts for these things. I saw a thread where a guy put carillo rods in his, i wonder how much lighter they are, if they'd be worth the money. | ||
| Jdugger |
Don't stroke would be my advice. The 1125r's major disadvantage is top end. It's where I get smoked every race when running with the in-line 1000-cc bikes. I can get them on digging out of slow corners, but once they wind up I better have a few bikes lead into the corner or I'm getting smoked. Stroking will just make this worse. | ||
| Torquehd |
I agree. Just inquiring. Does anyone know anything about headwork? i know the heads already flow pretty darn good (i was impressed the first time I removed the airfilter and could see the intake valve smiling at me), but the EBR tech I emailed said, "headwork is always an option". so, i'd guess there's an extra pony or two hiding out in the heads. | ||
| Jdugger |
I didn't do anything to my motor outside of high compression and rod bolts. I'm getting right in the neighborhood of 150HP with high octane street-legal gas (Sunoco 100) and the EBR full system exhaust. | ||
| Torquehd |
did you have the heads machined to achieve that compression bump? | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
I wouldn't run the compression up so high, KISS, you know? Keep her on pump gas.... I think strokeing, (just shorter rods?) would be nice on these motors. Fatten up the bottom end for the street bike, but yeah not great on a racebike. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Stroking involved moving the centerline of the rod journal further away from the crankshaft centerline. If you stroke a motor, you need shorter rods to offset the increase in stroke (bad idea in most cases unless you have an insane rod length to stroke ratio), or use custom pistons that locate the piston pin closer to the crown (far better way if there is still room for proper support for the ring lands). The other consideration is the bore to stroke relationship and piston speed. Some combinations work better than others in general. For example something that may work for a drag race motor, will not stay together for 30 laps in a road race, or be even marginally reliable on the street if you rev it too high. Keep the revs down and a stroker will live, but that may defeat the whole purpose, when a standard stroke motor with an overbore may provide more power as well as reliability. | ||
| Jdugger |
I've been rather shocked at the durability of the high compression motor. Even at 14.8:1, I'm sure there's another season in this thing at full power. If I had a street bike, I'd leave it bone stock. So, I'm assuming we are talking about racing here. | ||
| Torquehd |
Jdugger, what ECM are you running? I wonder how a preprogrammed ECM would handle more compression. | ||
| Jdugger |
I use the programmable race ECM from EBR. I had it tuned on a dyno here in Texas for my fuel choice. | ||
| Torquehd |
did he give you any feedback on how the program was? I don't think it's like the HD racetuner where it autcorrects. | ||
| Torquehd |
I'm planning on milling the heads to get closer to 13.5:1. The standard 1190 big bore runs 13:1. I know the correct answer is to purchase the programmable tuner. I don't know any tuners in western WA. I could look into that, or run the preprogrammed ECM. I've been out of the loop a few years, what needs to happen as far as fuel/spark mapping when you increase compression? How do you think the preprogrammed ECM would do with the comp bump? | ||
| Jdugger |
Torque, Take the bike to a reputable race shop with experience tuning bikes. All the numbers kinda interact with each other, and it's a system of compromises to map one of these things well. It's way, way over my head. Post up on a local race forum in your area (WERA, CCS, whatever) and get a consensus on a reputable tuner in your area. | ||
| Torquehd |
Besides having to check clearances and buy new shims, would there be any disadvantage to having the cams reground - smaller base circle, roughly same duration, but a tad more lift? | ||
| Oldog |
Torque, a weld up re-grind may be ok for racing but if your goal is for street use, I would not consider that, the weld up will alter the metal, possibly rendering the cams un re-liable. grinding them smaller to change the profile may not work too well either due to geometry of the valve train. Perhaps the 1190 rx cams may be an answer have you asked? |
