| Author | Message | ||
     Robertb1958 |
Am headed to CMP Saturday on an 1125R for my first MC track day. Although I have around 300 car track days, am going with an open mind to learn, and no plans at all on how fast (slow) I will be. Main goal is to have fun and to leave as a better rider. I ride a tuber X1 most of the time, find it a little more suited to low speeds around town which is most of my riding. The X1 handling seems less sensitive than the 1125R, and I feel a little more precise on it, probably simply because I ride it more. Are there easy adjustments can I make to slow the 1125 response a little? | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Most of the magazine reviewers when it came out said to raise the top clamp level with the tops of the forks, and that relaxed the steering to their liking. That would be step one. Me, I just got used to it....you will be riding harder and more technically on track than you probably ever have before. You're basically going from a power cruiser/muscle standard to an extremely sharp sportbike, thus the unsettled feeling. Lowering the forks (raising the clamps) would be your half step, but it may also be worth just takeing it easy and focusing on learning the track, the bike's handling will come to you with laps, and that ultra sharp handling will also feel more comfortable on the track. Whatever you do, don't push yourself....especially not day one on a new bike. Just line up at the back of the beginner pack so you don't feel any pressure, and focus on what you need to focus on. You'll be amazed how soon you start to feel "held up" by the slowpokes. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
look for posts (do a search) from Jdugger (the wizard of whoa)...tires and brakes may be a bigger concern than suspension on your first trip....as a man named Egan would say..."Got to learn to trust your tires". Try to ride long enough sessions to get into a rhythm with the track/bike - then evaluate the components. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Yep, I made a thread like this over the summer, and Dugger set me straight, even though I didn't make it to the track this year. (He's an instructor somewhere.) The brakes are...unique, but work great once dialed in. The stock pads tend to glaze on street use, scuff the rotor with 100 grit or a whiz wheel if you have one, and get heat into the rotor, night and day difference. He also said the fluid needs to be changed yearly, at least. And as a generality you want new or like-new tires. No Shinkos or Tamahawks! Search "1st track day" lol...tons of threads. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
+1 on what Sir W. sez....a trick I use with new street riders and we use at the track is to tape over the speedo and tach...learn to watch the track with a "high visible horizon"...once you get the track "memorized" - then take off the tape...hope this helps...have fun! | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
I've never understood the tape, I just never had time to look (was told not to, as well), so I didn't. Is it to force new track riders not to look at the speedo? To help them keep their heads pointed through the turns? | ||
| Robertb1958 |
Thanks, guys, one (good) thing is that the steering seems good when one rolls into the gas, ha ha. I will tape over the speedo, don't need the tach, and try to look through the corners, and at the corner workers! Bike came with newish looking Mich 2CTs, hope to tear them up some. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Sir W...yes you're spot on - the lack of temptation to "see how fast I was going" forces the operator to watch the road/track... I usually start out my lecture to new riders with a physic lesson: 60 MPH = 88 ft/sec...at 60MPH you have traveled over half a football field in 2 seconds....watch where you're going- you're reaction time (and lack of experience) can use up that 2 seconds and move you almost 60 yards closer to the corner! Robtb - try and remember to downshift first then brake - trying to do those two activities at the same time (as well as leaning and turning) may cause mental overload...you may not crash but you'll lose momentum going into (and out of) the corner... ...and if you done track days in a car - you then know to pick some "landmarks" on the track for downshifting and braking points...the corner workers sometimes move! I'm on a set of 2CTs now and like them for the canyons around here...have fun! (Message edited by nuts4mc on September 27, 2013) | ||
| Skntpig |
Make sure to ask the tire vendor, if there is one at the track, about pressures. He should have a cold and hot target. You may be surprised how much lower your pressures should be than on the street. | ||
| Robertb1958 |
Had a GREAT time at the track. The 1125 performed very well, and there was a fair amount of interest about the bike in the paddock. Skntpig, I ran about 31 cold on the 2CT's lower than factory but a bit higher than the advice I got (28). Best thing about the 1125 was the smooth strong power delivery at corner exit, even if I was in too low of a gear. Used up the front brake pads and the brakes got mushy, so better pads and maybe a different master cyl before the next event. What else? Wish the throttle could read my mind, sometimes I was too abrupt adding power out of the turns, sometimes my hand was in the wrong position to twist all the way. The suspension springing is probably a little soft for my weight (250lb) and track work. Thinking about stiffer springs. I would like to hear any input on different springs and track tire pressures from all of you. The 1125 was much more capable than the operator! Need to exercise and loose weight!   | ||
| Jdugger |
Beautiful! | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
There was a Pirelli rep at VIR last time I ran, he told us waaay low, like 23psi cold, which brought it up to 28ish hot. It made a huge difference! Tires are hotter on the track, and the lower pressure allows more sidewall deformation and a bigger patch at lean. That's not to say your Michelins work the same, just sharing... Did you run the "book" suspension settings? They're soft, setting everything harder yourself should help a lot with that. I had to jack the rear preload up to the hardest "book" setting for two up riding, but found that it put my rear right where I wanted it, which is track hard. I have to back the damping off a bit so as not to beat the wife to death! I think my front preload is almost all the way "up" as well. I'm about 210, and the road feel is fantstic. I was 250 back in the day, and yeah, flingin' all that ass around on the track is tough! Buying better springs to suit your weight is "ideal", but it's also "expensive". Most of the time, with good suspension, you can tune it to suit. | ||
| Skntpig |
Congratulations on your new addiction! | ||
| Hughlysses |
There was a Pirelli rep at VIR last time I ran, he told us waaay low, like 23psi cold, which brought it up to 28ish hot. It made a huge difference! Tires are hotter on the track, and the lower pressure allows more sidewall deformation and a bigger patch at lean. That's not to say your Michelins work the same, just sharing... I read a discussion of setting optimum tire pressures for cars once, IIRC it was NASCAR. The process seemed very counter-intuitive. They'd start with a target pressure, pump the tires up to something less than that, then run a few laps and check the pressure again. If the pressure was LOW (below the target pressure), that indicated the initial pressure had been too HIGH and vice-versa. It makes sense if you think about it- if the initial pressure is too low the tire makes LOTS of heat which results in the air expanding too much and a final pressure which is too HIGH, but I doubt if it would occur to most of us to judge it that way. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
It was pretty much the same thing, but the target was cold, he didn't even give a hot pressure, just a "ballpark". He did say the extra low pressure would heat the tires faster, which jibes with what you said. Tires are fascinating. I once read an artical by a Michelin GP tech, he said basically race bikes (or cars I guess) run slicks because of heat, more than grip. The grooves in a tire cause more heat because they "bite" every time they hit pavement. If you put the same compound in a slick, and a treaded tire, the treaded tire will get hotter, faster. The grip lost in the small grooves is negligable, but the heat management differences are critical. He was explaining why blueing in a take off was a good thing. If the tire's blueing, that means the rubber is still oiling as it's heated, if the blueing is old or faded, the tire has been heat cycled too many times. It was probably in Road Racer X, years ago. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Your rear tire has a little bit of tear it looks like, it would most likely be from running the pressure a little high. Nothing major. I would recommend good pads and good fluid before changing the MC. For track day use it will work just fine. FYI, the Buell(s) running in AMA SuperSport run the stock MC. | ||
| Jdugger |
> FYI, the Buell(s) running in AMA SuperSport run the stock MC. No way! I wanna see a pic of that... | ||
| Wymaen |
The stock Accossato MCs?  | ||
| Robertb1958 |
What do you think, EBC HH pads or the Race version? Ran EBC's in my track car once(only!) Any other recommendations? I did put the HH version in the back, had something creating premature wear on the outside pad that now seems fine. Did not use the rear brake at the track. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
the "Wizard of Whoa" (Jdugger) is the expert on the front brake...following his posts I have done the following with good results: Motul Hi temp brake fluid ( $20) 19mm M/C (off a GSXR 1000 ebay - $120) Rebuilt the caliper (kit from EBR(about $60) New disk mounting hardware (kit from EBR $50)...an improved design much more "robust" for trackdays/racing. Pads, like tires seem to be a personal choice the "2015" from EBR ($200) seem like the choice of racers , EBR also has a performance set for $150... Al at American sport bike has Ferodo pads with a race option version for around $100 http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/9262.html here is a link with discussion on pads that might help: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/679455.html like your engine, brakes are a system...you have to have all the right parts (and working together) to obtain an increase in performance- I have used the EBC pads - they are "dirty" and "score" the rotor ...gonna try the ferodo's (race version) next...hope this helps | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I don't have a pic right here, but I know for a fact that Josh Hanson who ran AMA SuperSport at select rounds this year was running the stock MC, and it's dictated in the AMA rulebook. Page 40, 6.3 b.i. "The front and rear master cylinder must remain as originally produced by the manufacturers for the homologated machine." | ||
| Jdugger |
Wow, that's really hard to imagine. I guess if you rebuilt it every other race or so you would get acceptable performance, but the OEM MC on these bikes is pretty lousy indeed. I know for DSB, a higher-spec nissin MC was homologated. Don't know about SS. (Message edited by jdugger on October 03, 2013) | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Correct. DSB allows a ton more changes. Walt Sipp was using one of the Nissin MC's on Smoke's Thrashed Bike Racing 1125 in DSB this year. We replaced the Accossato that Smoke had on there with it at Road America. |
