| Author | Message | ||
     Jimustanguitar |
I've never owned a bike that's had an aluminum frame before. Several of the stop lights around town (especially the ones where I need to turn left) don't tend to detect my 1125r. Any tips? | ||
| Spike240sx |
Ya, i have never had any luck with this. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
When you approach the stop get hard on the front brake this causes more pressure on the front tire and could help trigger the light. Fortunately our state passed a law that bikers can go through red lights after a stop and only if no other traffic is present ofcourse. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just pull forward as safely as I can, then wave the car behind me to get closer to my rear tire. That sometimes gets me detected. | ||
| Two_seasons |
"I just pull forward as safely as I can, then wave the car behind me to get closer to my rear tire. That sometimes gets me detected". Yeah that would work in a "normal" setting. Problem is that driver behind you at 3am may not realize what "closer" is, then hit you and take off. Here in WI, you can proceed through the red light after 2.5 minutes which, depending on TOD, is totally absurd. Lawmakers need to consult actual users before making laws that don't work! | ||
| Spike240sx |
Getting on the brakes hard will not work. Most if not all triggers are induction, not pressure. | ||
| Spank |
Actually in Wisconsin it is 45 seconds at non timed lights...according to the motorcyclists handbook. Just wanted to add so you aren't sitting there too long Two Seasons.  | ||
| Levor |
I've made it a habit to put my front wheel on top of the lines at the stop lights (where applicable) those circle/square tar lines are a good indicator of the general location of the magnetic coils they put in the ground, I find I have better luck putting my wheel right ont he line than I do centered up, but it could all be superstition. Alternatively, for real stubborn lights, I've been known to get off the bike, run over and hit the crosswalk button for the crossing parallel to your direction of facing. Sometimes putting down the kickstand helps too, gets the metal closer to the coils. The issue is simply a matter of mass. The coils detect vehicles based on the magnetic interference (I could be using the wrong terms here, so bear with me) from their metallic bodies, but are so-designed as to prevent unintentional detection from things like objects on the roadway or vehicles in other lanes as they pass by close to the coils, so bikes, not having enough metallic mass, sometimes have a more difficult time being picked up. It is worth noting you can report these "insensitive" intersections to your local DOT, they CAN adjust the sensitivity of the coils. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Mounting a old computer Hard Drive Disk to the bottom of your bike will do the trick for the least cost involved. Or you can buy a magnet made to do such a thing but you will spend alot more than tearing apart a old HDD. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Spank said "Just wanted to add so you aren't sitting there too long Two Seasons." You funny man  Actually I sit at the light an extra 1:45 to figure out why I am on a bike, like a "where the heck am I" moment or "why did I come this way"... just kidding  I enjoy getting lost. I may be old but dammit I'm still kickin...three stents later this last May   | ||
| Dannybuell |
Georgehitch17 - what does a HDD do? | ||
| Craigg |
Not sure about your stop lights. The ones here in Illinois usually have a square box on the ground and you can park right on one of the box lines to trigger it. I'll take a picture next time I'm out on the bike | ||
| Jimustanguitar |
The hard drive has big magnets in it to trigger the magnetic sensing coils in the ground. A lot of bike parts catalogs sell magnets and zip ties to do the same thing. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Colorado has been installing cameras with vehicle recognition for the bigger lights. I pull up and flash my brights a few times and very shortly I get a GREEN. Z | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't understand how the magnets do anything more than any other piece of steel. I suspect the way these things work is a tuned capacitor and inductor pair that resonates at a particular frequency. The inductor is actually a loop of wire in the road, and when you park something ferrous on top of it, it changes the resonant frequency. The degree of that change is probably fed via a phase locked loop circuit fed to a comparator to trigger the light. It's not pressure sensitive, and it's not a magnet down there. I've not tried the magnet thing. Maybe they work by some other mechanism I'm not thinking of. | ||
| Oldog |
I think that Reep is correct,.. any metal will effect it to a degree but Iron / Steel more so. the under bike magnet = snake oil | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Some lights just won't change for a bike, ever. Turn right, immediately U-turn. Not always applicable. Park the wheel right on that line, there is indeed a strip of wire in there. You can put your kickstand down on that strip, got that fro Motorcyclist magazine and used to do it out in the country. Not sure but sounds like a good idea. Here in NOVA I mostly just pul up into the crosswalk and wave a car up behind me to the line. Quickest, easiest, solution and works every time you can find a cager who'se not a moron. I've heard that VA law is you hve to wait through three cycles of a light....that could take ten minutes, I'll be damned. I end up running lots of lights after a reasonable stop time. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Stop with the bike over top of as many sensor lines as possible. Many of ours are diamond shaped, so stop with the bike crossing two of the lines, the more coverage the better in my experience. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've tried the kickstand on the wire thing, never saw a difference. | ||
| Zac4mac |
A very large percentage of the triggers are inductive as Bill said and nothing short of a large ferrous mass will work. If there's not enough traffic to trigger for you, then run the light after a suitable wait. Z | ||
| Kevmean |
I find the standard can on the 1125 is pretty near damn certain to trigger the lights, you don't get much bigger mass of steel on any other bike. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
well magnet or not I can videotape proof of the one down my street working in 5 seconds every time with the magnet and taking 2 minutes without... | ||
| Zac4mac |
May well be, George. A small percentage could be magnetometer based. It's a viable technology but not as reliable/sensitive as inductive. unless you get a magnet in the right spot.  I've heard of guys putting Neodymium-Cobalt magnets in their bootheels... When automated sensors first came out, they were basically a scale with a switch. Bikes and small cars didn't trigger them... technology moves us on. I really like the cameras we are using, I just wonder what details they get... Z | ||
| Court |
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/oper ations/its/06108/04.cfm | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Pull up to the line! Small-vehicle (e.g., motorcycle) detection using short inductive loops requires a high sensitivity setting on the electronics unit. However, high sensitivity will frequently cause detection of vehicles in adjacent lanes (splashover). Many agencies use quadrupole loops to avoid splashover. As the quadrupole requires an additional sawcut equal to the length of the loop, it is desirable to limit quadrupole installation to the area near the stopline. Quadrupole design is discussed further under the topic of "Detection of Small Vehicles." Detection of Small Vehicles Increased fuel costs tend to accelerate the proclivity for smaller, fuel-conserving vehicles. These range from small compact automobiles to l00-cc motorcycles, mopeds, and lightweight bicycles. The increasing number of these small vehicles and their behavior patterns often necessitates their detection with existing standard inductive-loop detector configurations. A presence sensor should be able to detect a small motorcycle and hold its call until the display of a green signal. If the sensor drops a call prematurely, the motorcyclist could be trapped on the red phase. The required hold time should at least match the shortest cycle time observed at the intersection. The NEMA Standards (see appendix J) specify a minimum hold period of 3 minutes. Calls may be dropped prematurely in some older inductive-loop electronics units that include the ability to compensate for environmental drift, primarily due to changes in temperature and moisture. This circuitry will frequently neutralize a weak detection from a small vehicle within a period of less than a minute. Newer electronics units do not have this problem and all meet the NEMA Standards and the Type 170 Specification, which both require a minimum hold time of 3 minutes. In California and other temperate areas, the bicycle has become a common mode of transportation. As such, properly signalized intersection operation and safety require detection of bicycles. The inherent problems associated with bicycle detection include: •Locating the loop on the street to assure the rider will be within the detection zone. A separate bike lane is ideal, but not always possible. •Sequencing the traffic signal to accommodate a detected bicycle. This cannot be done with some control techniques. •Providing sufficient signal timing to avoid trapping the bicyclist in the intersection. This also can be a problem with some intersection designs. In response to these problems, it has been suggested that the inductive- loop electronics unit have extension timing and delay features. In such a system, one loop is located about 100 ft (30 m) from the stopline, and the second loop is located at the stopline. When a bicycle is detected at the first loop, the extension time is provided to hold the green to allow the bicycle to reach the loop at the stopline. When the detection is made at the stopline, extension time is provided to allow the bicycle to move far enough into the intersection to safely clear before the end of the yellow indication. If the detection occurs when the light is red, the minimum timing feature assures that when the light turns green, the minimum green time will allow safe crossing of the intersection. This type of operation works best in a bike lane. The loop in the bike lane with a standard electronics unit could be wired to call the pedestrian timing, which would allow adequate time for the cyclist to cross the intersection. A delay feature is used where vehicles merge into the bike lane to turn right. The detection is not immediately registered so that the vehicle may complete a right turn without creating delay for other traffic including bicycles. A number of factors determine the most effective inductive-loop configuration needed to satisfy policies that dictate detection of small vehicles, including bicycles. Important criteria include shape of the loop, width of the lane, and loop placement within that lane. Loop configurations that enhance the ability to detect small vehicles are described below. Awesome post! I've always heard inductive and not magnetic....apparently it's both. Time to stick some of those neodynium magnets to the bottom of the muffler! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Magnet fields drop exponentially with distance. While I have not done the math, if you are trying to detect a small magnet from 12" away, it better be nuclear powered. You just need a lot of mass of magnetic material (not a really strong but small magnet). (Message edited by reepicheep on September 04, 2013) | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Magnetic fields intermingle, and the bottom of my 1125 muffler is like 4 inches off the ground. I wonder if there's a way to test that? Is Mythbusters still taking suggestions? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Very cool Court. So basically, the same "bug" that makes it almost impossible to get a compass to read right in a car or in a building is used as a "feature" to detect objects nearby. I guess if it was good enough for naval mines in 1942, it would work for traffic today. Sir Wads.. your exhaust is 4 inches above the road, but the loop is under the road. I don't know how far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is 8 inches. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Not at all, It's under the very top layer of pavement, I've actually seen the milling machines drag the wire out of the pavement when they resurface it. An inch down at the most, sometimes you can see it in the crack. | ||
| Court |
See Chapter 5 under Installation Techniques. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/ope rations/its/06139/chapt5b.cfm#ind Varies by jurisdiction. My company had large loop installation contracts in a number of large cities including Dallas, Kansas City and Sacramento. 1-1/2" to 3", as memory serves, would be typical. Some of our largest contracts were as a sub-contract to repaving operations where our crews would follow the milling machine and, as loops were milled out, we'd install the new loops in the substrate. The idea of this was to prevent future milling damage and eliminate the open saw cut. There is a downside to this that increases exponentially with depth. We were often able to overcome this with the new digital detectors and some juggling of inductive frequency tuning and sensitivity settings. I love loops. We applied some pretty innovative thinking to how we did them and we often hired because of the quality of our work (perfect or you owe us nothing) and the fact that we could install about 4X what other companies could in a day. Good enough garner a Small Business of the Year award. Fun stuff. |
