| Author | Message | ||
     Boogiman1981 |
Hey has anyone actually taken one of the fuel pumps apart yet to see of there is a crossover part number for the pump itself? | ||
| Bigblock |
Hey Boogi, ask Jim at JTS at Sears Point, I saw one kicking around the shop when I was fixing the front stand, he could probably tell you. | ||
| Bigblock |
707-996-6103 | ||
| Kenm123t |
Hey Boogi Rob & company may still have the one they bought at Daytona. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
We never bought a pump and the one that I think you are referring to was borrowed and went back almost immediately I'll get with Jim | ||
| Kenm123t |
I knew Stacey went after one and came back with one. Didnt see what happened after that I s it the same as a XB9 ? dad has a pump assembly we need to replace the pump on. I can have him look at the number on the pump its self. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I have one(PO130.1AMD) in my hand now. The only markings I can see on the pump is a stylized triangle with the word KAPUS across it. Looks like the fuel pump body in my Fiero...   Z | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Ken it's entirely possible but i couldn't say for sure. maybe someone that has access to the parts network can cross ref for us? | ||
| S21125r |
Boogi - minus the housing, regulator?, and filter, the pump itself looks like many of automotive fuel pumps I've seen - at least from the pictures anyway. I had a low pressure pump that came with my Turbo S2 kit that looks almost like that one - think it was a Bosch (been many years...). Might be worthwhile to find pressure specs and pump dimensions and see if you swap just the pump out with something from Napa/Autozone. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
that's what i am trying to do exactly. i'm hoping that if someone has taken one apart they can grab a number off of it to be crossed vs playing whack-a-mole | ||
| Dennis_c |
can you fix the low fuel level senser on the fuel pump any one know? | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
I'm sure a person could replace the thermistor that's on there. However I thought and could be wrong that the lfl was a software issue in the cluster? | ||
| Zac4mac |
There are 2 causes for LFL/CEL. If you get LFL/CEL shortly after starting and they go out as the bike approaches OpTemp, 99.9% of the time, that is due to an old rev firmware in the IC. Solution is a new IC. Current firmware is 6.2(2008-9) and 7.1(2010) IIRC You can see the rev by scrolling thru Diag Mode, the rev# is at the end. If you have an 08 with the original IC, it doesn't show the rev, but it's either 6.1 or older. Cool side-effect if you decide to buy a new IC for your 08- you get the gear indicator. You also lose coolant temp while warming up, the IC just displays COLD. If you start the bike and all is good, then as the bike gets up to OpTemp you see LFL/CEL, you have a bad sensor/thermistor. Sometimes the lights go out after the frame heat-soaks. Solution is a new fuel pump assembly or add a trimpot across pins 1&4(A&D) on the fuel pump plug under the rider's seat. Putting a resistor in parallel will lower the total resistance, the thermistor drifts high over time so you have to drop the resistance back to spec so the IC knows what to do with the data. Spec for the sensor is 800-1400 Ohms. My first sensor started giving me LFL/CEL on cold mornings. I measured it on a 50*F day at 2200 Ohms. Z | ||
| Battyone |
I've pulled a pump assembly apart. the standard pump is a carter,but could find no ref to it's part no. I'll look it out later and post it-maybe someone else can find it direct. I wanted to fit a bigger-higher flowing- pump,after dyno logs showed mine working at 90% + at wot with big dips in the pressure. I also saw a huge pressure drop when launching. tried a walbro255,made a huge difference performance wise,but was a pain to fit-2mm bigger diameter- and really didn't like being speed controlled via pulse width modulation.Made some ery strange noises. So i tried a new brand, HCR 290lph seems to be quite happy and solves the lean hit when going wot.there is still some pressure fluctuation at wot on the run but much less than the standard pump. Easier to fit too only 1mm bigger. Basically the buell pump is just a generic fuel pump and almost anything similar will do the same job,the only requirement seems to be a heavy core-allows it to deal with pulsing. My pump assembly had been wrongly fitted in the frame,was very difficult to get out,I'm amazed it didn't leak.The locating tab had been broken off and the whole thing fitted 90degree out of position. The ecm will adjust for a bad pump,I borrowed one off joe that barely made 59psi at normal running-pump running flat out and couldn't up the pressure for wot,the ecm just increased the injector pulsewidths to "try" to compensate. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
thank you! that's amazingly helpfull. you have a link to the HCR HRC pump you used? | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
wonder how the aeromotive 340 would do? their info says it's good to go for pulsed applications. | ||
| S21125r |
Batty - couple of questions for my own knowledge... If the pump is PWM then I'm assuming that there isn't a pressure regulator on these bikes then? Seems like a regulator would be redundant if the sensor and ECM work in closed loop fashion with the pump to adjust duty cycle. Reason I ask is I never really "looked under the hood" - I had assumed the pump ran at 100% duty (analog) with a mechanical regulator set at a constant pressure. You also mention that the injector PW has a correction factor for pressure spikes/dips, but that seems redundant (in my mind anyway) if the pump is PWM. On the other hand you have obviously seen pressure spikes that PWM didn't correct for so sounds like PWM cant fully control pressure in all cases. So what is the real function of the pressure sensor? Is it there to help adjust pump duty cycle or help adjust injector PW? Or both? Boogie - sorry for the jack but I thought it ever so slightly germane to you and others looking to go outside the box :-) | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
not a regulator yes a sensor. yes PWM. that's i think part of the reason for the peaks and valley's in the pressure. that can be changed though depends on the sampling rate by the ecm. this is also how the ecm maintains pressure after shutdown to avoid vapor lock. pressure is supposed to be maintained within a window and injector pulse length is taken from tables based on rpm and throttle angle. | ||
| Dennis_c |
can you fix the low fuel level sensor on the fuel pump any one know? My low fuel light quit coming on in the IC + the mileage part that shows how many you have driven since the light came on. That part does not work either they never come on hot or cold does that mean a new IC or fuel pump. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
further diagnosis would be required to determine the exact cause of your problem dennis but the questions you have were answered further up the thread and the answer is yes if the thermistor is shot then it can be replaced or you can add a trim pot to bring the values back into spec. if it's the IC then the only fix is a new IC. | ||
| Battyone |
The 1125 uses a dead head system,no regulator no return. 59psi for normal running and 69 at wot - at least according to my logs. something like 60-70% duty cycle for normal running,90% + at wot. The problem that I saw was constant drops in pressure with corresponding lean afrs.With a dead head system it's never going to be a straightline.I think larger bore hoses and fittings-with a big enough pump- would smooth it out,I settled for the big pump with a big filter,damps the worst of the spikes out. The ecm does use tps vs rpm tables for fuelling but there are other variables in play. When I tried Joe's spare pump my ecm was (trying)opening the injectors for physically impossible durations to try to compensate for the lack of pressure. standard pump is carter,61522. other no's on it 111208,12765. The pump I'm using now is an HRC,HF 290 lph in gs 342spec...basically looks like a walbro 342 255lph but is heavier. Bought on ebay for £60. never thought to look at aeromotive but bet it'll be pricey??? | ||
| Kevmean |
Also if the 1125 system detects a malfunction on the pressure feedback in defaults to running the pump constant and some how alters injector opening times to suit (I guess without the pressure feedback it must assume what max pressure is). My CR ran like this for a couple of weeks while awaiting a new pressure sensor, only noticable difference was itdidn't start quite so readily. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
The aeromotive pump I was thinking of lists for $180 at summit racing but I saw ads for as low as $129 dunno what shipping would be to you though. Maybe another 20-30?? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Interesting stuff guys. Starting to think Loretta's poor showing on the dyno a few months back may be the fuel pump and not internal issues. It was having trouble with pressure at key-on, motor-off 6 or 8 months ago, that's why/when I bought a pump from a BWBr in Texas. Still don't like finding a dozen or so pieces of sand in the pre-screen but that may not be an issue related to power... noise, ya maybe. I think I'll pop the pump into Loretta and make another dyno run. Main dyno issues were: only 114-115 HP and a very jagged plot with race ECM, Drummer and K&N. did 126-128 with a smooth line on 3 different dynos, bone stock, 3 years ago. All plots were SAE and smoothing-5. Z | ||
| Battyone |
I went from 140hp to 120 when I tried Joe's knackered spare. Nearly gave me heart failure til I saw the data log. I've just fitted a fresh motor to the race bike,can't believe how quiet it is. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
i'm thinking a new lines etc to go with the big pump. for as short a run as were are talking and the minimal number of fittings i can't imagine it would be way out there expensive. | ||
| S21125r |
Hmmm... makes you wonder what EBR is using for a pump in the 1190... I have to assume that fueling needs are greater considering the extra shower head injectors needed to support that additional airflow. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
i didn't get a chance to take pump out of the 1190 earlier this year so i can't say for sure i think i recall discussion in the garage in daytona saying the pump was in fact different though. | ||
| Battyone |
From my conversations with Michael at EBR I got the impression that he thought they used the same pump on the 1190. But from my data I cannot see that working,sure it has a few % of duty cycle left,but a few% at the top of the flow rate isn't going to be worth much.The standard injectors are not far from maxxed out either. Little Joe makes 150hp ish and that's probably right on the limit. with mine making 146 duty cycle at 10,000rpm is starting to get beyond 85%. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
spoke with someone yesterday who was inclined to believe the factory 1125 pump is what's in the 1190. guess my daytona memories were not correct. | ||
| Battyone |
Maybe my original pump wasn't 100% healthy? Might try a mitsubishi TU35,sometime. Got a couple sat around,fitted to most big jap bikes,but also hard to find unless as part of a very expensive assembly. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
keep in mind the 1190 has 4 injectors... | ||
| Ratsmc |
So, my fuel pump died on me. pulled it out and tested just the pump alone and got nothing. Looking for a replacement but haven't found a source in the for any of the part numbers listed here or in Gunter's topic. Anyone have any suggestions on where to find one? |
