| Author | Message | ||
     Zoolander |
I am trying to finish the EBR rotor replacement job. I have everything buttoned-up - or so I thought. I used the manual and don't think I missed anything. When I goto fire it up, all I hear is some air moving in the airbox and some clicks here and there. I checked the battery and it says 13.08. What am I missing? | ||
| Baf |
Crankshaft position sensor fubared or not put back in? | ||
| Zoolander |
I put it back in but how do I know if it's fubared or not? Since I had the airbox off, I did the de-noid procedure too. Could that have anything to do with it not turning over? I'm pretty sure I have the resistor plugged into the right spot. | ||
| Baf |
Unless you roughed it up or broke a wire or something, chances are it's fine. My 1125 was already de-noided when I bought it, so I'm not too familiar with the procedure, but AFAIK, resistor plug missing should only cause a CEL under certain circumstances. Bike should still run. I thought the bike was cranking. Is it not even doing that? | ||
| Zoolander |
Sadly, no it is not cranking. All the lights go on when the key is turned but when I try to fire it up...It just sounds like a big fan-like noise from under the airbox. | ||
| Sparky |
If you have an external voltmeter put the leads on the battery terminals and then push the start button. -- If voltage drops a lot when you hear the clicks (assuming the clicks are from the start relay and/or the starter solenoid) then the starter motor is likely trying to crank but there's not enough juice to spin it fast enough to start. -- If voltage barely drops or not at all then starter circuit troubleshooting needs to be done. Do the headlights stay on when trying to crank? | ||
| Timebandit |
check you starter fuse and the starter circuit wiring. if your starter won't crank, and the fuse is good, look at current on the starter circuit with a clamp-on ammeter or one of the ammeters that use their probe to replace the fuse. if your starter draws current but won't crank, I'd immediately suspect that you might have wedged the starter ring gear when you put in the rotor. the installation should require ZERO force, and if you had to coax the rotor into place, you could have wedged the starter ring gear in place. along similar lines, you did double check to make sure that the starter ring gear spun freely in the sprag clutch after you put in the loctite 648 and before you did the rotor install, right? sloppy loctite could be your enemy. i hope this isn't one of those situations where you would have been better off paying a pro tech to do the work. | ||
| Zoolander |
Sparky, The voltage did not drop when I tried to start. The lights stay on. Timebandit, I'm confused as to what the starter fuse is. Looking in the fuse box, I don't see one labeled specifically "starter". As for the starter gear, everything I looked at after the rotor was installed spun freely. I felt that I was careful with the threadlocker. Other than tearing apart everything again, is there a simple way of knowing if it is not spinning freely? I am positive that paying a pro tech to do this was the way to go,...problem is is that I could not find a tech here that would do it. There are no certified Buell techs here in Cincy that would take the job. Therefore, I am in over my head. It is what it is, as they say, so here I am. At this time, When I hit the starter, nothing but a click from the starter relay is heard. | ||
| Sparky |
Since the headlights illuminate, that likely indicates there is power to the Start Relay contacts. And that power gets switched to the Starter Solenoid providing the Start Relay works like it should. Actually the headlights should switch off when the Start Relay is energized. Because they stay on when the button is pressed, that means the Start Relay could be bad or it's not being enabled. -- Try swapping the Start Relay with one of the other relays and see if that changes things. Other things to check: -- Double check the ground cable connection at the subframe behind the engine; make sure it is clean and tight. -- Verify the Solenoid connector is fully mated. | ||
| Zoolander |
Sparky, I switched the relays and the same thing happens, nothing. When I put the probes of the voltmeter on the starter solenoid, I get 13 or so volts. Am I checking that correctly? The ground was checked and it looks good and tight. The only oddity I have discovered was that the fuse to the "lights" was blown. I'd love that to be the cause of all this but something tells me it's not. Does this sound like an electrical connection problem or is it a wedged starter gear problem? | ||
| Sparky |
If you are checking the large nut/lug on the Starter Solenoid, one of them, the + battery cable, should have 12 VDC and the other, the starter motor cable, should have 0 VDC with key off. With Key On it should be the same condition. Note: voltage to the Lights Fuse (called Starter Fuse in Timebandits's post above) also goes to the Starter Solenoid thru the Start Relay contacts when it energizes. If the Lights Fuse is blown, the bike won't start. Seems like you need to do some wiring troubleshooting on the wires leading to/from the Lights Fuse out to the left hand controls for the headlight Hi/Lo switch, Flash-to-Pass switch and the headlights. Probably a pinched wire somewhere especially if you removed and reinstalled the airbox. Do you have any Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) in the Instrument Cluster? | ||
| Zoolander |
Sparky, I will double check the readings from the starter solenoid when i get back home - Vegas for the weekend! - thanks for the direction. Hopefully its a simple fuse isssue or a pinched wire. I do not have any diagnostic codes registered. | ||
| Zoolander |
I replaced the "lights" fuse and it still won't start but it is now back to making that fan-like noise(best that i can describe it as) from the motor when I hit the starter. To clarify, the headlights DO go off when I hit the starter. The bike just won't fire up. I traced the wiring from the left hand controls to the fuse box and couldn't see anything loose or in poor condition. The hi/lo beams, flash-to-pass functions all work. What is the bike actually doing when I hear this fan-like noise? | ||
| Sparky |
OK. Seems like the start circuit is doing what it should be doing with the headlights going out when pushing the button. So, that noise you are hearing must be the Starter Motor freewheeling and not engaging the flywheel. If you think that noise is from the fans, check if there is air blowing from the fans when you hit the Start button. If not, you know what you have to do next. | ||
| Zoolander |
I already ordered the rotor nut. Round 2... | ||
| Zoolander |
so I took it off again. Is this what is ment by "spun freely"? (click on pics to play video)  after I put the rotor back on and removed the locking tool:  Is there another way to check if things are as God intended it before I button it back up? | ||
| Baf |
It should spin freely one direction, and grab and lock in going the other direction. Based on your videos, it seems kosher. You could probably unplug the fuel pump, then crank the motor briefly with that side cover off, just to try and see what's going on. If something bad happens though, I take no responsibility. :P | ||
| Sparky |
Was it a case of the sprag clutch put in backwards (if that's possible) or some other reason? Glad you were able to figure it out. | ||
| Zoolander |
Baf, the starter gear did move in only one direction. As far as tearing more of the bike down, I think I'll pass on swimming into deeper water. As far as your liabilty for my work, I usually like to blame my stupidity on others but no one ever believes me! Sparky, I really wish I knew what i did differently. Obviously, i did do something but I don't know. I suppose when fitting the starter gear into the sprag clutch, I probably jammed it in there not knowing it should be relatively easy. The second time I did it, it seemed to drop right in. I'm not sure what else it could have been. Of course, I'm not done yet. I haven't put the cover back on and actually tried to start it. I shouldn't get too excited yet. | ||
| Zoolander |
Just making sure, where does this washer go?  It seems to only fit here:  | ||
| Zoolander |
I put everything back together and goto start it...same thing. It is quite a crushing feeling. This is what happens when I hit the starter:  I have hunted high and low for any kind of loose connection but can't find anything. There is supposed to be a ground connection by the steering stem. I don't know what that looks like. Is it on the left or right side? Could there be something wrong with the starter motor itself? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Zoo - you got the right place for the "washer". It goes on AFTER you slide the rotor on, it fell off when you pulled the rotor off. At least, that's what happened to me.  Z Sounds like the starter is turning, but the sprag isn't catching. I watched the video of you turning the motor and the starter gear is meshed and turns when you turn the crank. That means your sprag is working, only thing I can think is the gear isn't locked to the shaft. did you remove the starter gear? It should have a locking keyway betw the shaft and gear. (Message edited by zac4mac on July 08, 2012) | ||
| Zoolander |
Z, when I took the rotor off, the starter gear came off with it. I'm not sure what the "locking keyway between the shaft and gear" is. Can you educate me on this? I was reading up on possible starter troubles and a recurring problem was not a starter problem but a weak battery. Some would have normal voltage readings but not enough amps to get the starter to fire up enough. I'm praying that this issue is simply that. | ||
| Pmjolly |
This is baffling me. I replaced the rotor nut on mine last night. I rode it today. All is good. I had my laptop on my workbench. I compared mine to Zoolander's. I just don't know what could have gone wrong. It's not a difficult project. Hmmmm | ||
| Zoolander |
Pm, in a weird way that actually makes me feel better that you said that. If there's a word for baffled x 10, then that's what i am. Initially, I was a little intimidated by the job because I have never undertaken anything like this. With the help, I realized it's not the hardest thing - especially the second time. I'm really hoping its a battery issue now. If it's not, don't tell me - it's my only hope for a quick fix. | ||
| Craigsmoney |
Have you tried removing the starter to ensure it is functioning as it should? Before I did that I would look at the start solenoid and make sure both wires are tight. It is located just under the rear brake reservoir. I had a problem of a no start, and it ended up being a loose nut on that solenoid. Good luck | ||
| Zac4mac |
Zoo - if the starter gear "came off" then that's the problem. Look at the shaft the gear slides on, there should be a groove in it ~ 1/8" square and 1/2" long. A matching groove will be in the gear, look around your work area for a small 1/8 piece of steel. Guessing but pretty sure, I will look at the bike I'm working on in an hour or so to confirm. Zack | ||
| Zac4mac |
Deeper than I thought. Did the starter gear or the balancer come off? Starter is the small gear on the left while the balancer is the large gear your washer goes onto. If it was the starter gear, was there a big plastic piece around the bottom of the engine? That piece is supposed to retain the starter gear among other things. The starter gear is actually a friction clutch that spins one way like the sprag. I hate to think you may have to pull the rotor again. PM me your phone number if you want. Back2work Z | ||
| Zoolander |
Craigsmoney, I checked and double-checked all the connections from the battery to the starter and all points in between. Nothing was loose at the connection points. The relays were all working as well. I did not actually pull the starter out though. I figured since I could hear it spinning, it was not the problem. I could be wrong on that? Z, I thought the starter gear was the thing that slid into the sprag clutch/rotor. I know what smaller gear you are talking about though. I did pull that smaller one off and literally a second later I slipped it back on into the same exact position. I never took off any plastic pieces. This is what it looked like immediately before I put the ignition cover back on:  This morning, I actually brought it into a dealership for them to help me. Last night, I tried to jump it to see if it was just a weak battery. Bad idea. As soon as I contacted the positive terminal with the jumper cable, a huge spray of sparks shot all over. There were several burn marks left on the terminal bolts. Tried it a couple times and it was like the 4th of July. I never had that happen before so I quit. I was thinking there is a short somewhere but I wouldn't be able to find it. Hence the trip in. Still haven't heard from them. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Zoolander, I think this must have to do with you taking that small sprocket off the starter. I just looked at all my pictures, and the exploded view of the parts manual. I did not see a keyway anywhere that would retain that little sprocket on the shaft, but if there is supposed to be a key in a keyway, it won't work without it. It would do exactly what yours is doing. Are you sure a little piece of steel did not fall out of there when you took the sprocket off? I wish I had seen all this before I put mine back together. I would check how it is put together. |
