| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
I've finally started tinkering with Tunerpro. http://www.tunerpro.net/ It looks really powerful--there's a dizzying array of options. So far the only thing I've found that I can tell for sure what it does is the fan on and off settings. In the interest of being lazy and sharing ideas, I've started this thread. Document what changes you've made, why, and if you were happy with the result. ECM: EBR for Barker exhaust, BUE2D242 engine braking at stock Setting Location: Scalars -> Fan Key-on On Temperature Default setting: 77C New setting: 83C Setting Location: Scalars -> Fan Key-on Off Temperature Default setting: 71C New setting: 77C The default setting has the fans on at 170F and off at 160F, but the bike never gets below ~165F even when cruising at highway speeds, so the fan never shuts off. My settings should turn the fans on at 180F and off at 170F--so they should theoretically be off during highway cruise. I may change them to 185F on and 175F off, after testing. I'd also like to smooth out the engine when cruising between 3500-5000rpm, but haven't quite figured out how to do so. (Message edited by TheFleshRocket on May 18, 2012) | ||
| S21125r |
Flesh - i use history tables with many samples to log fuel needs outside of closed loop. Way smoother than when i started but not butter smooth. Tinkered a bit with timing as well to get rid of the jerkiness around 2500 - 3000. I can move it around but cant get rid of it. I suspect that maybe the timing table needs a little more granularity at low rpm part throttle. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Interesting. Which ECM are you running? Does anyone know which setting affects engine braking? | ||
| Kruizen |
"Deceleration correction" affects engine braking, I'd start out at about 70% and play from there. You may have some popping on decel. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Get the EBR ECM, you won't have to mess with it at all. They have ECMs for each of the major exhausts, which they fitted on the 1125 and dyno tuned, how can you beat that? An ECM with a custom dyno tune from the guy that designed the bike. | ||
| Kruizen |
It's not a custom dyno tune. It's a aftermarket stock tune for that exhaust on a specific test bike that was used. While the eb r ECM is much better than a stock ECM, your bike will have variances that affect performance. Think about how often we have seen posts where someone's bike was running way different afv's than you but both of the bike seemed to drive fine. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
On a specific dyno in the rolling hills of cali which is a different set of atmospheric conditions as well. Also a different blend of gasoline than most of us get too. | ||
| Tsnake |
I think he already has the ebr ecm, why people keep suggesting at this point? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Dktechguy, I am making these changes on an eb r ECM. I feel like the bike ought to be smoother in the 3500-5000rpm range when cruising. Eb r ECM is better than stock, but not great at that rpm and throttle range. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Thanks, Kruizen! Now, to figure out what some of the other settings do! | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I am curious is it the paid version that is needed to tune an 1125R also what is used for monitering? | ||
| Kruizen |
No you dont have to pay. If you pay all it does is get rid of the 15 second countdown clock when you open the program. | ||
| S21125r |
Sorry Flesh - I didn't answer your first question... I'm tuning an stock ECM that used to have the nasty lurch at 2500-3000 at cracked throttle. My observation was that during the lurch the timing was hopping between two cells that had drastically different values. I retarded the timing a little bit on the higher RPM cell which seemed to fix it, but it then created a "step up" between that cell and the next higher RPM. It was like I was chasing the lurch up the RPM band but never really getting rid of it. In the end I put it back to original as I'd rather have the lurch down low since I don't spend much time down there. | ||
| Battyone |
IMO a lot of the reason for the snatchyness and lurching is down to the basic efi install. tps and rpm based maps(fuel and ignition) are never going to be perfect everywhere. Great for racing not so good for fine control on the road,especially when on a vtwin,which isn't going to be smooth at lower rpms anyway.Maybe a better tps would help? My 1125r was almost unrideable when I bought it-remus and poweriser fitted- couldn't run less than 4000rpm in anything other than 1st,changing up lower than that felt like you'd gone straight to 6th. A tmstg1 ecm and torque hammer improved things no end,but still not perfect. Plus you get the hassle of tps reset all the time. Turning off the O2 sensors help no end,but you can only really do it safely if you fit a wideband sensor instead.Or use a known safe tune. My nicest road map had O2s off and 3% added to the global fuel increment.But there were a few changes done to the fuelmaps too. Now I'm only tuning for the drag strip,so just playing with WOT. Richen them up they love more fuel! Emission control is not compatible with bike engines.They run much smoother when richer than stoich. I use the shifter function in the standard ecm(pin13 grey connector)and revlimiter is set to 11,500.Also added more rpm to accel correction.Tried the shift light but can't see it on sunny days. Save multiple copies of your standard eeprom and you can always go back. All I really know is 1125s make great race bikes. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
"Sorry Flesh - I didn't answer your first question... I'm tuning an stock ECM that used to have the nasty lurch at 2500-3000 at cracked throttle. My observation was that during the lurch the timing was hopping between two cells that had drastically different values. I retarded the timing a little bit on the higher RPM cell which seemed to fix it, but it then created a "step up" between that cell and the next higher RPM. It was like I was chasing the lurch up the RPM band but never really getting rid of it. In the end I put it back to original as I'd rather have the lurch down low since I don't spend much time down there." Interesting. Do you recall which cells they were, and under what part of the map they were located? I am not clear though--how would it not be possible to fix the lurching? Couldn't whatever timing settings are causing the lurching be modified to eliminate the lurching altogether? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Battyone, did you just add 3% to the fuel by adjusting the AFVs to 103? What's the intent behind increasing the rev limiter to 11,500rpm? Did you need the extra overrev for track racing? I increased the limiter on my Speed Triple 1050 from 9500 to 9900 because I would occasionally hit the rev limiter while setting down a wheelie--the extra 400rpm gave me the headroom to set the front tire down smoothly without hitting the limiter. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Does the EB R ECM, when under closed loop cruise, have a target AFR that it tries to achieve? For example, I can adjust the target AFR in various cells for my Speed Triple so that the bike can be richened up in those ranges just by specifying, for example, 13.5:1 instead of 14.7:1. | ||
| S21125r |
Flesh - it's been better than a year since I messed with it but if I recall correctly I set up a history table for timing advance. I turned on logging and the run it at the lurch point and let it lurch away for several hundred feet. I could easily spot that section of the log file from the speed sensor reading and could see it hunting the timing table. Two cells in particular that it was hunting seemed to have considerable differences in timing. So my premise is that the lurching was caused by timing difference. On the other hand my MAP sensors seem to bounce around in this region as well but don't know if that is a cause or an effort for the timing hunt. Let me look around in my log files as I probably have one saved off that I can refresh my memory with :-) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Another interesting setting I found: Flags -> Cooling Fan Configuration: Enable fan on/off thresholds based on vehicle speed IE, tell the fans not to come on above a certain speed. This setting is a yes/no--I need to find where I can specify the actual cutoff mph for the fans. Hopefully this will allow the fans to stay off at high speed, when the airflow through the radiators should be more than the fans can manage--thereby resulting in the fans acting as a restriction! | ||
| Froggy |
The XB uses that setting, the 2010 and Race calibrations do not run the fan below 15mph unless it gets really hot. | ||
| Battyone |
TFR, yes 11500 to allow me to cross the line in 5th instead of having to waste time snicking 6th. With O2 off my afv are 100% to increase fuelling everywhere I use the global fuel increment. standard 78% iirc. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
"The XB uses that setting, the 2010 and Race calibrations do not run the fan below 15mph unless it gets really hot." Do you mean that the 2010 and Race calibrations do not run the fan ABOVE 15mph? At low speed is the primary time when the fan would be needed. | ||
| Froggy |
My statement is correct. They do not run the fan below 15mph unless you exceed a high temperature threshold. Having the fan off impedes airflow, part of the reason they want it running while the bike is in motion. | ||
| Battyone |
"They do not run the fan below 15mph unless you exceed a high temperature threshold" That's something I've got to try to programme on my standard ecm,despite turning temps up,when stationary they still come on at 77c... Sat on the start line that is blasting hot air into the air scoop and stealing horsepower. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
"My statement is correct. They do not run the fan below 15mph unless you exceed a high temperature threshold. Having the fan off impedes airflow, part of the reason they want it running while the bike is in motion." That runs counter to what I've learned and experienced. With the EB R ECM (and with the stocker, to my recollection), the fans do not shut off below any speed. If I'm going 20mph and the fans are on, they don't shut off when I come to a stop. Ever. With the EB R ECM, once the fans come on, they stay on until the bike is shut off. Additionally, at speed, the amount of air being forced through the radiators should be significantly higher than what the radiator fans can suck through. At speed (I'm not sure what speed--40mph? 50mph?) the fans actually become an impedance to airflow because the amount of air forced through the radiators by the surrounding atmosphere is greater than the fans can flow at maximum speed. This is why cars (in general) don't run their cooling fans at speed. The only way I could see the fans flowing more air than what could be pushed through the radiators at speed is if the pods are designed in such a way that they just don't flow very well. And I can't imagine they would be purposely designed that way. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I figured I'd try to richen up the entire mixture range by changing the AFVs to 105, but I can only find a setting for "Rear AFV". There is no "Front AFV" setting anywhere that I can find. Is there a different setting in TunerPro that I should change to force a global fuel increase? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Interestingly, this morning I enabled: Cooling Fan Configuration : Enable fan on/off thresholds based on vehicle speed (figured maybe this would have an effect on when the fans are on) and Shift Light Configuration: Shift light output enabled (figured this would light up the tach needle at/near redline) After uploading the map, the bike wouldn't respond when I hit the starter. Since I was heading to work, I didn't test to figure out which setting caused the no start condition. But I thought it was rather peculiar that one of those two settings was likely to cause the bike to simply not respond when the starter button was pressed. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Lmao Rocket I did the same thing and got same result. Changed a few other things at same time. Bad idea I know so reloaded last known good.... | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
whoa... Do this, data log.. Use My ADX file to log and get the history tables you need to find the issue. You will need to alter the ADX to fit your History x&y axis values to your fuel maps. its in Acquisition, edit ADX. History. do it for the front and rear... make the values match your ecm maps put one zero no matter if you have more than one zero column. count columns to see if your map has 21/19/15. Change the top number in edit are to fit the rows you have. once done click save. view history avg, and Adjust... burn in new file... Please save old file first... Ride it let it learn the new numbers, if better data log again. View logs, make anymore corrections. save corrections and save file as even newer version. Upload even newer file. download file to make sure the number changes are in the ecm. Ride and repeat if needed... It is that simple. set fuel pump pressures higher... decel fuel also helps when changed... Check Global fuel as well... (Its not the AFV that is different)... Tunerpro RT is your friend... If overwhelmed the RT lite version of the XDF's are on the way... Xopti (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on May 31, 2012) | ||
| S21125r |
Here's something I've been experimenting with... If you think you have a lean spot where you should clearly have full rich i.e. WFO in high RPM, I have method you can use to spot that using the stock O2 sensors. Yes you can look at individual voltage for every sample but it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack. It doesn't tell you much more than rich/lean but it's better than no information. Here is what I did to make life simpler: 1) Edit the adx file and create a lookup table for each O2 sensor. For each table you create entries that will take the O2 voltage and will translate it to a -1 (lean), 0 (stoich), or +1 (rich). This is exactly the way the ECM sees/evaluates the data. 0 through .415 volts gets assigned a value of -1. .415 through .561 volts gets assigned a value of 0, and .562 through 1 volt gets assigned a value of +1. 2) While you still have the adx in edit mode, go to Values and find O2 and O21. On the conversion tab for each of those you will see a check box to “send converted data to lookup table” and then an option to pick one of the lookup tables you created in step 1. O2 is for rear and O21 is for front. 3) Now create a history table for each O2 sensor. This is a bit tedious as you have to define RPM scale for Columns in one tab and Load scale for rows in another tab. “Output (Z) Object” you will select as O2 or O21 depending on which O2 sensor you are creating the table for. As you log and run you bike through the RPMs it will log -1, 0, or +1 in the history table instead of the raw O2 voltages. Where it becomes useful is that at wide open at high RPM you should make a couple of observations: 1) If your running minimum was at -1 or 0 then you know for sure you have at least one sample that was leaner than stoich or stoich respectively. 2) If your running average is closer to 0 than it is 1 – and you have sufficient sample counts - then you know for sure you have a nasty lean spot at that cell. In my latest log I MIGHT have found a lean spot at 6900 RPMs for both front and rear cylinder. I say might only because I don’t know that I have enough samples to make a determination yet. Rear: RPM = 6900 Load/TPS = 255 Sample count = 4 Running Average = .5 Running minimum = -1 This equates to 3 riches and 1 lean. Front: RPM = 6900 Load/TPS = 255 Sample count = 4 Running Average = .75 Running minimum = 0 This equates to 3 riches and 1 stoich. Not sure if this is useful or not but figured I'd share. | ||
| T_man |
+5% rich(er) across the whole rev range on E-B-R's Race ECM for my open air box and HPE race exhaust. Seems to work well. Before I had the E-B-R Ecm I had done a myriad of changes, but honestly what made the most difference on the stock ECM was a global richening. |
