| Author | Message | ||
     Timebandit |
We're trying to evaluate a theory about the underlying mode for 2009 stator failures. To do that we need to collect as many 2009 stator photos as possible in one place. If you have a stator photo, please post it here. It would be particularly helpful if you could do THREE things when posting a photo: 1. Use photoshop to rotate it so that it is oriented in the following way: A. FOR A MOUNTED STATOR: rotate the picture so that a horizontal line goes through the mounting bolt, the crankshaft recess, and the other shaft recess, as shown in the following picture. Doing this orients the embossed Rotax text in an upright position. It also places the bundle of wires at the 11:00 position. B. FOR A LOOSE STATOR: rotate it so that the orange bundle of leads is at the 11:00 position. Having the same orientation for all of the photos will make it quick and easy to compare various stator photos. 2. Post the owners name and the MILEAGE ON THE STATOR (not the mileage on the bike) under the photo. 3. Indicate whether the stator was GOOD or BAD when the photo was taken. For example, see next post. For the time being, it would really help the engineers who are going to review the data if we could collect as many photos as possible, and hold of on drawing conclusions until a large number of samples have been collected. Thanks to everyone for your help! (Message edited by timebandit on January 17, 2012) | ||
| Timebandit |
 TimeBandit. 4100 miles. GOOD. (Message edited by timebandit on January 17, 2012) | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
 4800 miles. | ||
| Timebandit |
Thanks for your help! I guess I should have added another question for the poll: 3. Was your stator good/bad at the time the photo was taken? Here's a pic of your stator, rotated so it's alignment is like mine. discolored areas are the same in both.  Finedaddy1. 4800 miles. BAD. (Message edited by timebandit on January 17, 2012) | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Timebandit - Stator was bad, thanks for the rotation of the pic. Couldn't seem to get it just right, it would only let me do it in 15° increments. | ||
| Timebandit |
Here's a picture that shows the clock-face orientation if that's more helpful in making comparisons.  | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
This is very interesting. Timebandit, I'm assuming the area from 6 to 10(lighter) is the normal color, and the darker part is discolored. Question, how are the legs of the stator wired up? Is one leg in that 6-10 area, and the other two in the dark part? Or are they mixed together? My idea is, If the leg that is controlled by the charging harness is placed in the "hot" part of the stator, then when the charging harness is activated it will cool this leg down. Whereas now, if that leg is not in the hot area, then the hot area never gets a break, because those two legs are running at 100% all the time. | ||
| Yugi |
3000 miles. Good, but the dealer insisted to replace it, said it was grounded, which was a bullshit  | ||
| Kevmean |
I have a burnt out stator that i have got hold of as a spare core Not sure of it's history regarding mileage etc but it is the area 1-4 that shows the most heat (darkest)and the worst being poles 1 and 4 . I'll try and post a photo later. | ||
| Kevmean |
 Not very clear in the photo as the complete stator is quite dark oriontated with the mounting hole at 11 oclock and not the wires (suspect because it's been coiled up for a while the wires are not as they would normally sit) | ||
| Nightsky |
Yugi, did you measure the resistance from any leg to ground? Between legs? This might be asking much, but please include resistance measurements of your stator between legs and to ground. | ||
| Jdugger |
http://jdugger.com/~jdugger/images/2009-1125r/IMAG0104.jpg 7,000 miles, '09r, works perfectly. (Message edited by jdugger on January 19, 2012) | ||
| Timebandit |
Seems like JD is great at rotating the throttle, but not so good at rotating pictures. I'll do it to keep the orientation in-line with the others. I'll shrink it too... Here goes:  JDugger. 7000 miles. Good. | ||
| Timebandit |
Well, we've got 5 out of 5 stators that all show the same burning pattern. That's exactly what I remember seeing when I was running through the forum looking for photos. I think the preliminary analysis is pretty clear. The stators are getting really hot on one side, in the area from 12:00 to 4:00, and are really cool in the opposite side, from 6:00 to 10:00. I think that this is because oil is being picked up by the spinning rotor, and lapping it up onto the coils between the 6:00 and 10:00 positions. By 12:00 the oil has dropped off of the rotor, and the coils from 12:00 to 5:00 aren't getting any significant amount of oil cooling. Of course, the EBR EDM'd rotors should address this problem. What would really be interesting would be to mount temperature probes at 3:00 and 7:00 to see what kind of temperature differential the stator is actually seeing. That could tell us how much temperature reduction it takes to preserve the coils. I hope DualBuells is keeping an eye on the results because he wanted to confirm my theory that all of the stators were burning out he same way. If anyone has more photos, please add them to the thread, and don't forget to resize and rotate them if you can. Thanks! (Message edited by timebandit on January 19, 2012) | ||
| Kevmean |
Just a thought here, dangerous I know :-) but could the reason the relay shutting off a leg has such mixed results be down to which leg it shuts down? I take it each leg is every third pole on the stator? So if it's the leg that has pole 1 & 4 on it it will isolate two poles in the hot area. If it is the leg starting on pole 2 it only really isolates one hot pole as 5 is getting back out of the problem area...the same goes for starting at pole 3 as its next one is number 6. So my thinking is that the relay mod needs to be on the leg with pole 1 and 4 to be most effective. So before fitting a new stator identify which leg is which if possible and mark the lead and make sure that it goes to the relay when attaching to the plug . | ||
| Yugi |
The relay actually shuts off 8 poles out of 12. | ||
| Timebandit |
It's not anywhere near that simple. 3-phase windings are not isolated with one phase per pole, they are interleaved. Rather than turning this into a treatise on 3-phase winding theory, I would recommend Googling three phase stator design and moving the discussion to another thread. Please let this thread be a photo album -- lots of pictures, few words. | ||
| Dualbuells |
photo of my 2009 1125CR, 7880 mile worked fine before my buddy crashed it June 2011.  | ||
| Timebandit |
Here's a brand-new stator for reference. (from another forum thread)  New 2009 Stator. 0 miles. Good. (Message edited by timebandit on January 21, 2012) | ||
| Timebandit |
Here is a custom rewind after 500 miles. (from another forum thread).  ultimo_justin. 500 miles on rewind. good. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Seems odd that all the pictured stators were made in 2008. I assume the two numbers stamped in the core is a date code - week/year. A new 09+ stator with the oil jet and a few hundred miles would be very nice to see. Z | ||
| Avc8130 |
Zac, Unless someone starts machining them, I doubt you'll ever see one. Right now the rotor is only available machined from EBR as part of the kit with the 08 stator. I imagine anyone that buys that kit for $900 is going to install it in its entirety. I am strongly considering buying a 2nd rotor off ebay and developing my own rotor machining operation. ac | ||
| Timebandit |
I'm going to put on the "Thread-Nanny" hat for a minute, and ask that we keep the thread focused on posting stator pictures. The reason for this is that I'm trying to create a reference photo archive that stator experts can look at, without having to wade through irrelevant text. If you guys could help that way, I'd really appreciate it. Splinter thread here for interesting discussion: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/665848.html (Message edited by timebandit on January 22, 2012) | ||
| Avc8130 |
I can comply... but why not just copy all of the pictures into a photobucket gallery to send to stator experts? | ||
| Hildstrom |
Hildstrom, 4000 miles, bad stator  | ||
| Jwoody |
2nd stator from HD. Made it 3,346 miles. Installed the EBR stator and not looking back.   Edited to fix imagelink code. (Message edited by Blake on April 08, 2012) | ||
| Kruizen |
Old stator 9K on it  new stator from EBR  | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Interesting, EBR is using a different epoxy then the HD stators. Should be interesting to see how that EBR stator holds up. | ||
| Timebandit |
Kruizen's first picture isn't rotated to provide standardized alignment, which would normally make it a little harder to compare, but in this case I don't think it really matters -- it looks uniformly discolored. He also doesn't say if it's good or bad. IIRC from another thread it was bad and that's why he ordered a replacement low-output charging system from EBR. Note that Kruizen's second picture isn't even a 2009 rotor. It's a picture of the 2008-style rotor from the EBR low output charging system. | ||
| Timebandit |
"Interesting, EBR is using a different epoxy then the HD stators." I suppose that another possibility is that the OEM supplier just implemented a change in their manufacturing process for the low-output stators. Remember that the 2008 stators never had a problem that needed fixing. |
