| Author | Message | ||
     Timebandit |
www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/665 334.html I'm splitting off some discussion from the stator photos thread (link above) because I think Zac raised a really interesting question: Seems odd that all the pictured stators were made in 2008. I assume the two numbers stamped in the core is a date code - week/year. I think you're right, Zac -- I think the numbers are week/year codes. But I don't think it's at all odd that all the pictured stators were made in 2008. What better time to manufacture stators for a 2009 bike than in 2008? I think that's typical for any model year vehicle. Most vehicles are first introduced and released for sale in the fall of the year that precedes their model year designation: 2009 vehicles first become available in 2008. That means the parts have to be available in 2008. Hence, the 2008 date codes. Were you thinking there was something more significant in the dates? If so, I missed it. What I find most troubling is that there are no manufacturer stamps on the stator flanges, so we can't determine who made them. Most USA manufacturers will stamp their products. So I'm guessing that these could have been made by Rotax. Or heaven forbid, a Chinese supplier. | ||
| Timebandit |
A new 09+ stator with the oil jet and a few hundred miles would be very nice to see. That would be a really helpful experiment wouldn't it? The problem is that the kind of test you've proposed involves some effort and expense. I think that there isn't enough financial incentive to make someone who is busy stop what they're doing and perform that test for our benefit. There might even be some financial incentive for them not to even talk about such activities. We've got another thread going where we've talked about putting temperature probes on the stators. I discussed doing this with someone who I thought might be especially interested in the results, but it didn't appeal to him. We had to talk about other things. The only people who would have incentive to perform these sorts of tests/disclosures would be aftermarket people who want to market a product/service, and who are independent of any ties that might bind them. I am strongly considering buying a 2nd rotor off ebay and developing my own rotor machining operation. There is market demand for that kind of service. Maybe you could license the existing design. | ||
| Yugi |
The question is how many stators do they have in stock, and what they are gonna do when they will run out of stock? | ||
| Timebandit |
Does it really doesn't matter how many stators P&A has left in stock? When H-D wants more they just order more from the supplier. Remember, H-D is legally required to make parts available for the 1125 for several more years. The real question is what are WE going to do when the clock runs out, and H-D is no longer required to stock them. When that happens, our fate will depend on whether P&A decides it's worth carrying the parts. We need to find an aftermarket solution before that happens. I like the rotor modification idea. Right now it looks like the stator temps are a lot higher than oil temp. If it's possible to get the stator temps down to oil temp, that should help us a lot. | ||
| Avc8130 |
I AM interested in machining a rotor to add the hole. I need a rotor and some "play" time at work. I don't have a new stator to baseline the test with though. ac | ||
| Lampo |
FWIW I've seen the boxes that the new replacement stators come packaged in. The '08 stator box clearly states "Made in Croatia" The '09 box did not state where the part was made, so I would have to assume it is a domestic (US) made part. Maybe. Story I heard is that the '08 stator source (Rotax?) could not or would not produce the higher output '09 stator, so HD sourced it elsewhere..... that info from a reliable source but it's hear-say. One things for sure - put an '08 and '09 side by side - no way did they come from the same source...the '08 looks machine wound where the '09 looks hand wound. | ||
| Timebandit |
"Story I heard is that the '08 stator source (Rotax?) could not or would not produce the higher output '09 stator, so HD sourced it elsewhere..... that info from a reliable source but it's hear-say." Hearsay stories are notoriously unreliable. There is a Harley-hater fable out there that says that Rotax wouldn't build the 2009-spec stator, and that Harley made the decision to source it elsewhere. There's never been any reliable information to substantiate that rumor -- it's just some unsupported hate-mongering that's come from the people who remain pissed-off at Harley-Davidson over canning the Buell line. I talked to two of the 1125 design engineers at EBR and the tech at EBR who disassembles the 2010-spec 1125 motors and rebuilds them into 1190-RS motors. They told me that the motors that EBR uses to build the 1190-RS are 2010-spec 1125 motors that EBR buys from Rotax, complete with the 2010-spec charging system. To put an end to the myth -- the high output 2010-spec stators that go onto the 1190-RS are the exact same stators that went onto our 2009 bikes. When EBR buys Rotax motors to build the 1190, these parts come on the 2010-spec motors manufactured by Rotax. Rotax now owns the rights to the 1125-type motor, having bought it from H-D. Right now Rotax is selling the 1125 motors to EBR with the high output charging system from the 2009/2010 bikes. That should put an end to the fable that Rotax won't produce the higher output stator. It's time to stop putting false blame on H-D just because they're the people who shuttered BMC. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
So do these have the rotor oil-hole in place at least? Or should it be expected the 1190's will have over-heating/failing stators also? Or are they putting the "kit" assembly in place? (Message edited by duphuckincati on April 02, 2012) | ||
| Sparky |
More hearsay perhaps, sorry, but I've overheard Rodrob, who owns the 1190RS that Shawn Higbee races, say that the 1190 has an oil cooled stator. So I would take that to mean EBR puts the oil jet modified rotors in their bikes. So I, at least, am led to believe that the 1190's will not have the charging system problems that we 1125 owners are saddled with. | ||
| Timebandit |
Not hearsay at all. Your information is just not up to date. I'll put an end to the hearsay -- I have an 1190RS rotor with the oil jet modification on my 2009 1125R right now. I obtained it directly from EBR during the off-season. I've posted about it in this forum several times. This is the exact same rotor that every 1190RS comes with. It's the exact same rotor that Rob has on his 1190RS. I had already explained all of the charging system modifications that they do to the 1190RS in another thread -- maybe you missed that. I'll repeat it again here for completeness. During the off-season I spent several hours talking to the guys at EBR. I spoke to the lead 1125 motor engineer, to the design engineer who is responsible for the rotor modification, as well as the tech who builds all of the 1125 motors into 1190RS motors. Here are the facts: EBR buys 2010-spec 1125 motors from Rotax. Those brand-new 2010 motors come with the exact same charging system that we have on our 2009 1125 bikes. Part of the rebuild/modification that EBR does in converting the 1125 motor to an 1190RS motor is to remove the stock, 2010-spec rotor and send it out to have the oil jet pilot hole EDM'd into the rotor. That's the only difference in the charging system -- EBR uses the stock 2010-spec 1125 stator, and they take the 2010-spec 1125 rotor and send it out to have a machine shop EDM the pilot holes. This is a fact. Any doubts? Call EBR and ask them. They will tell you that if you send them your 2009 1125 rotor, they will perform the oil jet mod on it, turning it into an 1190RS rotor. This is the basis for the rotor exchange service that they are now offering. Duph, according to EBR, every 1190RS has the oil jet modification and that is the basis for their fix of the stator problem (for racing applications). EBR is NOT using the 2008 system on the 1190RS -- they're using the 2010 system with the oil jet mod. Is it the permanent fix? Will it solve problems for street use? Only time will tell. In the interim, I'm the first kid on my block to have the fix.  | ||
| Baf |
When I talked to EBR about the rotor, a few weeks ago, they told me to wait for it to be put on the website (they said by the end of March......). Meh. |
