| Author | Message | ||
     Duphuckincati |
In the middle of my kit install, a few notes... First of all there's some other threads under "how long does it take" thread and here's another about finding TDC without plug/valve cover removal.. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/654656.html I'll add that after you lock the crank but before dealing with the main rotor nut, loosen the six allen head bolts at the bottom of the rotor that hold the sprag clutch to the back of it. These are only torqued to 22 ft lbs but are loctited and I had to use my air impact on the bench to loosen them. Easier when the whole unit is still on the engine. Same deal to tighten them, rotor in place. After you have the rotor/sprag unit on the bench getting the sprag clutch unit out of the back of the rotor entails putting a couple of the screws back in part way and just giving a little tap. You'll also want to have a new O ring for the sealing sleeve under the plastic plug in the middle of the cover because you have to transfer that to the new kit cover. Also have new O rings for the oil lines if you unscrew the fittings rather than pop the lines out using the clips. And a new gasket for the cover. A deep 1 1/4 inch socket fits really nicely on the main rotor nut. Be sure it's a heavy duty one for the 300 ft lbs it'll take. For guide rods for taking off the cover so the magnetic pull won't screw you up, hardware stores have "all rod" in the metric 6/1 thread. Cut up a couple of pieces about 6 inches or so, but have nuts on them positioned to fix the threads after you cut the pieces. My local 18 wheeler repair place loaned me his monster torque wrench rated to 600 ft pounds. This click-type unit is close to five feet long! It's cool! I had the bike up on my two T-Rex wheel stands and used the wrench pointed to the back of the bike so I was pushing down rather than lifting. Worked fine, didn't crash the bike or anything. That's all for now. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
All done, went well, just went for a 50 mile ride and the volts were almost always 13.7 to 14.1. At a traffic light it went to high twelves/low thirteens but that was it. All is well with the world now. | ||
| Gpb |
Is this the new EBR stator kit? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Looks good Larry. Glad you got it all installed and working. Thanks for the time to post this info. Z | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Gpb, that's a yes, the new kit. Differences are the rotor allows the oil passage already in place towards the crankshaft end to actually spray some oil to the inside of the stator, and the stator unit is 18 smaller windings than the original 12 bigger windings. | ||
| Believer |
That's great news for now. Please keep us updated with the informations about how the new ebr kit is hanging on. Hope it helps us save our problems. The bike will actually become an urban bike then. (Message edited by BEliEVER on December 23, 2011) | ||
| Timebandit |
> "All done, went well, just went for a 50 mile ride and the volts were almost always 13.7 to 14.1. At a traffic light it went to high twelves/low thirteens but that was it." Just thought I'd ask -- are you still using the stock Duc shunt regulator? If you still have the same Duc shunt regulator then I wouldn't expect any detectable changes to occur on the voltage meter -- if the shunt regulator and stator are both working, then the voltage should be the same regardless of which stator is hooked up to the regulator. I wouldn't even be looking at the voltage outputs. I don't think they'll provide any useful information. OTOH, If the oil cooling system really works, I'd be looking at the bike's coolant temperature to see if anything changes. One might expect to see a discernible change in the coolant temperature if the oil squirter is effectively transferring any heat from the stator to the oil. That would be something interesting to know. Have you noticed any changes in coolant temps? | ||
| Nightsky |
D*, you won't know "all's well" until you significantly pass the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) point without failure. That will take a few years. Timebandit is correct. If you're using the same vreg, of course measured voltages will look as before (although they may now sag at idle.) But it's still a shunt vreg you're using, and you are still dumping hundreds of watts into the stator at higher RPM. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Yes stock r/r, but my volts reading are a bit higher in that I rarely saw 14 or 14.1 before so... I'm under the impression that there is no other r/r units currently available that are significantly an improvement.? I will take notice of the temps, it's supposed to be in the high sixties Sunday (California baby!) so I'll check that. "All is well with the world" is meant to put forth positive hopeful energy!! My original lasted just over 8000 miles... | ||
| Timebandit |
the shunt regulator topic has been beaten to death. it's a dead horse now. it would be interesting to know if your coolant temps change, but chances are they may not improve -- the 2008 stator design still dumps a kilowatt of energy into the oil at high RPM, and that's a pretty significant amount of heat to get rid of. whether or not the coolant temps change might tell us whether or not the oil squirter + oil cooler combination is effective in getting rid of all of that excessive heat. it would be really interesting if we had the ability to measure oil temperature directly. with a shunt regulator, you may/may not notice a significant change after the oil squirter upgrade. shunts dump a lot of unnecessary heat into the oil, and it's a question of how much excess heat the squirter is able to remove. a series vreg would generate significantly less heat, especially if you're not operating at high RPM. i'd expect the squirter to be more effective at cooling if you stopped using shunt regulation. in theory, anyway. | ||
| Timebandit |
this would be an interesting problem to look at if our bike had telemetry.  | ||
| Duphuckincati |
So who's selling a suitable series r/r unit? I must have missed that. (Message edited by duphuckincati on December 23, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just ordered one of these: http://www.piccircuit.com/shop/pic-io-board/119-ic p12-usbstick-pic18f2550-io-board.html $12 to my door. Didn't get here yet, when it does I'll start hacking. I'll have to see how much eeprom it has, or if I can graft on a memory card easily. I'd like to make it log standalone, then upload afterwards. | ||
| Timebandit |
I can't get that link to load, so I'm not sure what you're looking at. but having data telemetry, or on-bike logging, would be GREAT. it would really ROCK to have access to the system's data bus. | ||
| Timebandit |
Duph, there is a recent thread where we were discussing the two series regulator options. Its recent, so it's somewhere near the top of the threads in the charging system forum. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hmmm... Try this link: http://www.piccircuit.com/shop/ And go to the Pic IO board links. There are two nice candidates there... the one I am getting has a USB jack built in. I'm guessing I can put a custom program in it that will gather a thousand or so data points from the time I push a button, and I'll be able to then load them onto a PC. The second has a built in graphical LCD with simple scope, so you can watch it in real time. Between ECM spy and a microcontroller, I don't think we are far from a "Buell Infotainment Display" like on a Saab 9-3. It's on my list to build, but I have a few other things I want to knock out first. | ||
| Timebandit |
I have taken test measurements on my bike, but that's involved lugging an oscilloscope and a clamp-on ammeter out into the driveway... not quite a practical solution for in-flight recording. I've thought about strapping a digital-recording, multi-channel, hand-held, LCD-type 'scope to the passenger pillion, but I've never actually done it. THE IDEAL solution would be to have remote telemetry (like they have at the races), or an in-flight multi-channel data logger (like the black box on an air plane). Back to the oil thing -- I was thinking that if you had telemetry you might notice a biphasic change in oil temp -- an initial rise in temp (transfer of heat from the stator to the oil) followed by a drop in system temperature (assuming that the oil cooler has enough capacity to get rid of the heat). It would be interesting to record oil temps in real time. I'd like to see an A/B comparison of shunt/switching regulators.  I like your idea. Please keep us posted! | ||
| Sparky |
Re stator cover and VR temps, if I wanted to get a portable temperature meter that uses stick-on thermistors or thermocouples, are there any available as a kit that are fairly cheap $-wise, accurate and dependable? I poked around Frys once and couldn't seem to find anything. TIA. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Guys Onset computers has HOBO recorders with multi channel probes and thermisters Cts etc cheap | ||
| Zac4mac |
Sparky - I have used a standard J-Type thermocouple and some Kapton tape. Kapton stays good submerged in liquid solder on wave set-ups so it's good anywhere on the bike except the first foot or so of the headers. I have one roll of Kapton left, I can send you some if you want. Picked up a roll once at a Mexican Restaurant. He got it from his brother and was using it to tape up notes... A side note - when Colorado was in the running for a super collider, one of the guys found out that even submerged in liquid Helium at 3 degrees Kelvin, it stretched 50% before snapping. Amazing stuff. Z | ||
| Timebandit |
I wonder how helpful it will be to take measurements from external (tape on) locations. I'm thinking that exterior readings will do a poor job of reflecting interior temperatures -- the magnitude of changes will be diminished from inside to outside and the occurrence (observation) of temperature changes will lag in time. I think we really need interior temp probes to get a good handle on real-time data. | ||
| Dualbuells |
It just so happens, I'm plant manager for temperature sensors, thermocouples/ resistance temperature detectors and thermistors. can build any thing you want,ie. bore hole through oil plug and braze in a MI cable thermocouple,most durable sensor. PM me with request and I'll see what I can do. | ||
| Sparky |
My kit car has a VDO dip-stick temp sensor that works great in that application but it is a push in/out dip-stick with 4 wires attached. I don't think that would work well with the screw-on type our 1125s have. So, there's an assortment of VDO temp sensors that are the screw-in type, suggesting a more permanent setup. Perhaps I could cludge one of these to the oil pressure sender fitting. That could turn out to be a fun project depending on how accessible that area is. But since I was thinking of a better way of monitoring the VR's heat than taking my glove off and sticking my finger on the VR to see how long I could keep it there, ha ha, hence my question a few posts ago. So, looking at the VDO temp sensors, they have a cylinder head temp sensor that is a thermocouple made into a ring lug for a spark plug. Wouldn't that work by taping it to the side of the VR or sandwiching it between the VR and the subframe? | ||
| Dualbuells |
surface temperature measurement is not accurate means to measure temperature, however if it's the only way you can extrapolate close temperatures. It is also a difficult process to keep good contact to a exterior surface. Your best means of measurement is as close to the area as possible, since thermocouples are tip sensitive and MI cable can be bent to 2X radius of it diameter and very durable. We could purchase a couple oil drain plugs and braze in a MI cable thermocouple to monitor the oil temperature more accurately at specific spots. I'll have to look at my 09' CR to see if I can get a thermocouple installed into the oil flowing past the stator windings. | ||
| Zac4mac |
If you're that serious about getting an internal measurement, stick a thermocouple in/on the stator and run the wire out with the stator wires. My temperature measurements 2 or 3 years ago was to see what temp the spare belt under my seat would see, so I wasn't trying to get inside. Interesting stuff, especially if you get a surprise result... Keep at it. Z | ||
| Timebandit |
Any news on what type of thermocouple might be useful for measuring stator temps? I'm going to be pulling my rotor off soon. I'm thinking about how handy it would be to add a temp probe to the stator while I'm in there. | ||
| Dualbuells |
Sorry, I've been swamped at work and my son and his wife delivered our first grand-baby..yep they call me gramp's now! I have not had time to look at my 09' for possible entrance points for thermocouples. I can make them small diameter 0.040" dia. or 1/16" (more durable), we'll need a way to monitor and record temps. I'll talk with tech/engr's on Monday to see what we can come up with . If any one has idea for location for sensors and test equipment I'm open to them. I am willing to supply sensors free, monitor equipment is a different story, but can do at cost. I'll see, we may even have sample hardware that could be donated to the cause. I'll post back up Monday after I met with engr'ng. | ||
| Timebandit |
Congrats, Gramps! I was thinking that the closer we could mount to the coils, the better. The only place that I think is viable for mounting to the coils (a place where we could bolt something on) is on the inner mounting ring of the stator. Would that location be good enough? http://jdugger.com/~jdugger/images/2009-1125r/IMAG 0104.jpg | ||
| Zac4mac |
You could probably drill into the laminate core without screwing up eddy current losses. Really the best wold be a couple of thermocouples inside the wiring of the upper lobes.. Maybe someone getting a rewind could have sensors embedded?? | ||
| Timebandit |
That would be the ultimate, wouldn't it? but hard to execute. I'd be happy to do the easy/practical test of bolting sensors to my mounting ring to learn what the temps are of the stock stator (not a rewind). I'll be doing my oiling conversion soon. I'm only going to have one chance to add sensors -- while the bike is open for the rotor conversion. If I can help, lemme know. |
