| Author | Message | ||
     Lemonchili_x1 |
I was all prepared to trade in my '09 1125R until I realised it was too much bike to give away for the prices/trade-ins they're getting around here, so instead of paying a few thousand to change to something else I'm going to try and spend less than $1,000 to fix the few things I don't like about my 1125R and try and make it a great "do everything" bike. I'd appreciate others thoughts/experience  My 1125R, Ronin, is an '09 model with modded stock exhaust, de-noided, and fitted since near new with an early-ish e-b-r ecm with reduced engine braking feature. I have the touring seats, and have had the fairing lowers fitted since near new. Otherwise stock, recently had new steering head bearings fitted under warranty and it's second stator under warranty. Currently running Bridgestone BT-016's. Things I like: Faaaaaaast Comfortable, especially above 120km/h. With the touring seat I can ride it all day, but I find it quite comfortable for everyday use. Gearing is great for high speed cruising and high speed thrashing. Stable, well behaved handling, very easy to ride at moderate pace. Good brakes. Excellent traction/drive out of corners. Things I don't like: Gearing is tall for stop start traffic so I end up slipping clutch a lot. The reduced engine braking seems to mess with things in stop start traffic too. Very little feedback from front end when pushing hard. Slow steering/reluctance to turn/requires muscle to change direction when riding at a fast pace. On the *really* twisty road I like near my home the 1125 requires a lot of concentration to ride quickly. It's not a *fun* bike to ride a lot of the time. Sounds like somebody dropped a bag of marbles in the crankcases  What I want to improve, in no particular order: * Low rpm manners for my daily commute * Low speed handling for my favourite road * Grin factor  Stage 1: I ordered some Apex adjustable clip-ons a few months ago which I hadn't fitted. After deciding not to trade in or sell, I fitted them on wednesday. The result is higher and closer to the rider, but not as much as high CR bars, but quite a bit wider than either. I've only been on one test ride but it has definitely made the steering lighter so I think this will help with the flickability. Another benefit that I didn't expect is that it seems to have improved front end feel. This could be a combination of the wider bars and because there is a little less weight on my wrists? Cost so far is $0 as I paid for the bars a while ago, however I really should get a longer clutch line ($42.45) and the e-b-r top triple clamp ($145?) would allow more position options for the bars. During the test ride I swapped out the e-b-r ecm for my oem unit. I'm going to ride it like this for a while and see if it's better in stop start traffic before I send the ecm back to e-b-r for changes. Proper test ride tomorrow if weather is good. Stage 2: Slip-on exhaust From what I've read and talking to Glitch and others, changing from stock exhaust to a lighter slip-on has a noticeable effect on the flickability. Can anyone comment further? I'd like to get the lightest one I can, which means Jardine, HMF, FMF or Barker, which are all around 6 pounds. I like the look and sound of the carbon Jardine the most, but the others are all nice. Can anyone comment on which works best at low rpm? That is, which would be best in stop/start traffic? Which would be best on a *really* twisty road? (I'm talking about 2nd gear, or maybe even 1st, turns marked by signs as 15 or 20mph) I believe the Barker gives really good torque down low, but does it improve the smoothness/drivability? Do any of the pipes have more "grin factor" than the others? Cost: $500 to $650 for a new slip-on including shipping to downunder, about $100 to send ecm back to e-b-r for reprogramming to suit. Please chip in with any other thoughts or comments, or any other ideas for improving low speed/low rpm manners or improving "grin factor" cheers, chili | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
The Apex bars during installation:  | ||
| Dannybuell |
Why spend money until you can be happy with handling and comfort? I think you should learn front suspension tuning first. Issue ~ Very little feedback from front end when pushing hard. Opinion ~ the front compression valve gives feed back, increase until your eyeballs vibrate and then start backing off. Issue ~ Slow steering/reluctance to turn/requires muscle to change direction when riding at a fast pace. Opinion ~ reduce front preload 1/12th of a turn (from 12:00 O'clock to 11:00 O'clock) at a time. Test and reduce until it fall's into the turns at the speed you want. There are trade offs too soft on front preload, nose dive on braking or high speed turn in may be too quick. If you want the suspension not to collapse at high speeds you will stiffen the preload for speed and lose a bit of low speed turn in. At speed any bike faces wind resistance, some more than others. Some riders crouch down low for less wind resistance. Other riders seeking comfort use higher bars, making their bodies become parachutes increasing wind resistance. Wind resistance pushes the bike and riders weight to the rear spring. When this happens the front to rear weight ratio may be all wrong and the bike won't turn in responsively. Increasing rear preload helps to overcome this unwanted weight transfer. I hope this helps. | ||
| Zacks |
Your opinion on the Apex clip-ons? I have pretty much the same opinion as you on front end feel and have played with all the settings front and rear to get it where it's better - to me - but still doesn't give me the same confidence as my Firebolt with the Helibar setup. Since they no longer make anything for Buells, I was looking at the EBR triple with Apex bars. Got the triple for Xmas and need to add something. Was leaning toward the Apex units because of the adaptability over say the Woodcraft product. Your picture really shows that in order to get the full range you need to change the top triple. Also, I like to roll my levers way down in setup to almost a dirt bike look. Helps with some wrist issues. So do the Apex bars allow you to roll the levers down? I'm currently running Al's high rise bars, but it's not helping enough. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Lemon, out of curiosity what other bikes are you comparing the overall handling of the 1125 with? Is there something you've ridden that set some standard you're looking for? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
Mr. Lemon IMO - engine braking is over-rated and can add to the issue of high siding...learn to use brakes better and get smoother with the throttle...may be taking out the "slack" in the current throttle would help or a quick turn twist grip to modulate the 1125r's power better?...look at posts from Jdugger he understands the front brakes better than most...maybe a quick bite pad material would help? Tires - you already have 'Stones on - have you tried all the other brands? Dunlops have great feed back ...but wear out fast. Bars - have you tried to change the front end geometry by raising lowering the forks in the triple clamps? have you tried just longer clip ons to increase leverage? It sounds like you would like a super motard or a TL1000 (with a real rear shock)...Warning the TLs have a lot of engine braking and can put you over the bars quickly...my daily driver is a DL1000 - works OK in the extreme twisties - but the 1125r make me a better rider...having to raise my visual horizon and become smoother on the down shifting/braking/ throttle skills. (yes it does take extra effort but that's why I wanted the 1125...it makes me a better rider.) My old man used to ask why I needed so many different bikes....I would reply: why do you have so many golf clubs? - you don't use a wood for a sand wedge do you? | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"My old man used to ask why I needed so many different bikes....I would reply: why do you have so many golf clubs? - you don't use a wood for a sand wedge do you?" Love it! I'm stealing that line! About to go out for a morning ride with friends and I'll see how the bars really feel. I've had the bike 2 years now, and just short of 20,000 km's. I've spent a lot of time trying different suspension combinations (one change at a time) and I think I've got the best compromise I can get between turn in and feel at the moment. It's not really a fair comparison, but my X1 sets the standard for steering for me - it's loose and flighty, but it flicks like a demon and tells you what it's doing at the same time. My old oil-cooled GSXR750 (which I spent heaps of time setting up) was also good with very good front feedback. Zacks - check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJi0HzJgJ8 especially from around 5:00. I'll write more later, but thank you all for your thoughts! Gotta go ride! | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
Do yourself and bike a favor, put the Showa Rear Race shock on your bike. Best $700.00 spent for handling. Right out of the box the ride height is a little higher, but no more muscle needed to throw it around. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you don't like the tall gearing, take a look at swapping to a CR pulley and belt. I loved the R when it came out. Track days were awesome, power was amazing...but around town it felt like a slug until I opened it up to speeds I shouldn't be riding around town. Then the CR came out, and I rode one in the demo fleet. I shouldn't have done that. Still a great riding position, same great power...but the gearing...ooohhhh the gearing. Perfect. Riding an R back to back with a CR, it's really hard to tell they're the same powertrain with only a gearing change. It's that noticeable a difference. An option you could try for the steering - higher rear / lower front ends lend to faster turn-in. You want more adjustability from your bars. Try slipping the forks up in the clamps so there's room above the top clamp, for the clipons to attach. It may be a radical change in handling...or it might just work for you. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Looking at the clip-on mounts, I'd have to wonder if you could get the tubes high enough above the triple to fully mount without running into clearance/crazy handling problems well before that point... | ||
| Timebandit |
> "If you don't like the tall gearing, take a look at swapping to a CR pulley and belt." I haven't done my homework yet, so I may sound stupid asking this, but here goes: If you swap to a CR pulley and belt, what (if any) other changes need to be made to assure that the speedo is correct? IIRC the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) mounts on the transmission, so changing gearing at the pulley would impart a change in calculated/displayed speed. I would think that the R/CR would have different speedo conversion factors in software. Would the CR pulley/belt mod also require a software update to fix the speedo readout? | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Got home a little while ago after doing almost 250km of mainly backroads with friends at a relaxed pace (Highway Patrol everywhere). I only got to push it a couple of times in the tight stuff, but I got home with a grin on my face The different bars are not a huge difference, but a significant difference - with no changes to the suspension settings the extra width/leverage is giving me more feedback and is more sensitive to my inputs. I wish I'd made the change a long time ago, I felt much more comfortable and once I got used to the bars I thought less about the bike and more about my riding. The new position is not that much different to original, and I quite like it, it was comfortable all morning. In hindsight a CR with high bars would probably be a better bike for me, and the shorter gearing would be great for most, if not all my riding. I currently run the forks dropped in the triple clamps so they're only sticking up about 3mm. I found this gave more feel in the front end without sacrificing turn in too much. Normally I would do the opposite and drop the front, but I found on the 1125R that it improved turn in a little at the cost of reducing feedback a lot, and the bike would want to stand up under power. Now that I have the wider bars I will try different variations again as the result may be different. Nuts - I have only had the OEM Pirelli's and the BT016's so far. I was thinking of Dunlop Q2's next as I believe they are fairly quick steering tire, though Sportsmarts or Roadsmarts are also an option. I really like the original TL1000S, they were a complete nutter bike, and soooooo much fun despite their faults! It's the only bike I can mono at will with confidence Zacks - I will take some close up photos of my bar setup. It's probably not that much different to the riser bars from Al, and with the standard master cylinders you cannot roll the levers right down. There is someone on here who has the e-b-r top triple clamp (which is thinner than OEM) and Apex or Helibars above the triple clamp. I will look into the gearing change. Although the OEM shock isn't fantastic, it's ok and I'd rather gets some more miles out of it and change the keel of an exhaust first. So... Jardine or Barker? | ||
| Rogue_biker |
The resistance to turns/reluctance to turn is due to your fork tubes being pushed down near flush with your triple clamps. That raised the front end of the bike so now it's resistant to turn. Drop them back down to stock height and your bike should be easy to flick over into a turn. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
I've gone through the stock tires, a few different types of sporty Michelins, Roadsmarts and now Bridgestone 023's. These are my favorite so far, very happy with them. Notably lighter steering after the Dunlops, and they are a single compound front and dual rear. I like that. Since we're talking about handling... | ||
| Froggy |
This is correct, you would need to adjust the ECM for this. It isn't hard to do with the TunerPro software. | ||
| Ratbuell |
As for your exhaust question...I know on XBs, the Jardine likes to come apart. Barker makes a quality piece. I'm perfectly happy with my stock exhaust, but if I were to change it, I'd likely go with a Barker, or an EBR (the Barker being a muffler, EBR being a full system). | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Pilot 2CT's. R | ||
| Avalaugh |
yes, tyres must be your next point, ive liked Michelin power pures and Pirelli's supercorsa's, but neither lasted that long. Going to try 2CT's next, everybody has a preference to tyres so just give some a go. | ||
| Nattyx1 |
Ditto what ratbuell said. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
If you do change to CR gearing then you will also need the CR swingarm ... unless you have a differently sized tensioner pulley made as one or two others have done. And as others have said, CR gearing is much better for around town - I can vouch for that as I have both bikes. (Message edited by sportster_mann on January 02, 2012) | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Ran to work and back today and although the traffic wasn't as heavy as normal, with the OEM ECM in it now I liked riding in the traffic without the E-B-R reduced engine braking. I like the reduced engine braking on the track, but in stop-start traffic it's a little inconsistent. I was actually surprised how well it's running with the OEM ECM, maybe it's because it has a few miles on the engine now, though it doesn't seem as punchy in the mid-range as the E-B-R ECM. Comments on the Jardines noted, but I really do prefer the tucked up look of the Jardine RT5, and carbon pipes always seem to sound nicer to me. All the reports I've read of the RT5 say the fit and finish is excellent, I'll just have to keep an eye on the rivets etc I've just emailed E-B-R asking how different the Jardine specific tune is to the ECM I have and whether a reflash is really required. If a reflash is not required, does anyone know how hard it is to turn off the reduced engine braking using ECMSpy/TunerPro? I'm hoping with a free flowing exhaust and normal engine braking it will be better in the traffic and I can leave the stock gearing. I'm very happy with the Apex bars too. I'll post some close up pics tomorrow. I do need to order the longer clutch line and E-B-R top clamp though. Tires... tires... tires... I have the BT021, predecessor to the 023, on the X1 and it's been good, I've got a lot of miles out of it. Steering is quick too, though I feel it's time to try something other than Bridgestones. When you say 2CT's do you mean Power 2CT's or Pilot Road 2CT's? I found a local place with a good deal on Dunlop Q2's, although they also had the SportSmarts for only a little more which are meant to be a very good road/track tire. I get the impression the Q2's and SportSmarts have lighter/faster steering than the Michelins. | ||
| Pwillikers |
I'd been frustrated trying to get my '09 cr to turn in and maintain a line. Since day one it required way too much effort to initiate a turn and then constant counter steer mid-turn to maintain a line. In preparation for the first track day I replaced the Pirellis with Michelin Pilot Power 2CTs. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! With the Michelins, turn in is light and effortless and mid turn lines are maintained with no hands. Boy I wish I had done this sooner. I've never had a bike that was so influenced by tires as this one. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I must admit I don't think I've seen a bad comment about the Power 2CT's from anyone who's fitted them on an 1125. Maybe they would be the safe bet? I still have a bit of life left in the BT016's, so I think it'll be another month before I change them. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
From my experience, the 1125R will cup its front tire as they age. The result is that the bike will begin to resist turning and will require constant effort at the bars to maintain an arc. My Firebolt did the same thing no matter what tire I had on. Having said that, I like the BT016’s best for my 1125R. My current ones are down to the wear bars and as expected, resistant to turn and needs a constant pressure on bars to maintain an arc/wants to run wide on corner exit. When the tires are fresh and on 2/3 of their useful lives they feel great! | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Pics of the Apex clip-ons. Having ridden a bit now I'm very happy with it, the extra width feels more natural to me. You'll see I'm really pushing the friendship with the clutch line, I'm ordering the long CR line. I might get a new brake line with a straight fitting too, but might wait until after I get the E-B-R triple clamp.          Jardine carbon slip-on is on it's way. USPS/AusPost seem to have got through the Xmas backlog and it may even arrive today according to USPS tracking I'm *really* curious to see how much difference removing the keel will make  | ||
| Froggy |
In my personal experience, the Pilot Power 2CT is the single worst tire I have ever used, period. Slower turn in, terrible grip, terrible life, terrible fuel economy, and due to it being smaller (yet still 180/55/17) made my speedometer significantly inaccurate. There are many better choices out there. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I have the same exhaust you just bought. I had a turned out tip fabricated. The end cap of carbon fiber is sitting on the shelf. It was turning my swingarm from hero blue to black. Maybe on yours, it won't make any difference since it is already black? | ||
| Zacks |
I'd be tempted to flip the banjos inside for out to get the angle different and the line running away from the fork instead of into it. Is the line length the limiting factor to lifting the bars? Do you think you'd like them to go taller? | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Re: new lines, my local chopper shop stocks braided steel line components to create your own lines. Check with your local chopper shop. Might find just what you need in amongst the ape hangers and sissy fringe. | ||
| Zacks |
So will Spiegler. Call them for colors, angle and length. |
