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Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 09:05 pm: | 
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Froggy - I did find your comments yesterday while searching and they are duly noted. Reading non-Buell comparisons between the Power 2CT's the Q2's it sounds like the Q2 doesn't turn quite as quick but is more stable and planted especially at the limits.
Maybe on yours, it won't make any difference since it is already black?
I'll find out soon, Vamps just sent me a message to say it's been delivered 
I'd be tempted to flip the banjos inside for out to get the angle different and the line running away from the fork instead of into it. Is the line length the limiting factor to lifting the bars? Do you think you'd like them to go taller?
The bars are as high as they will go with the riser tubes flush at the bottom of the Apex clamps, see the last pic. I guess you could take them a little higher as long as you didn't go above the lower pinch bolt, but right now the clutch line length prevents that.
I'm more concerned about the banjos turning inwards. I did think about flipping the brake line around and I might try that. I don't think it will help with the clutch line.
The tire shop I go to makes braided lines to order. I will need to get some brake lines made up for Vamps Zephyr later this year and so I might get a brake line with straight fittings made then.
I'm happy with the height where it is now, but once I get the E-B-R triple clamp I'll be able to try different angles and fore/aft locations. |
Zacks
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 09:15 pm: |
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What version of bars did you get? The 3"? |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 10:03 pm: |
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Yes, they're the 3" version. They're a really nicely made piece of gear, beautiful finish and stainless bolts too. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 10:19 pm: |
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Also, I like to roll my levers way down in setup to almost a dirt bike look. Helps with some wrist issues. So do the Apex bars allow you to roll the levers down?
I'm currently running Al's high rise bars, but it's not helping enough.
Zacks - I have the M/C's / levers rolled about as far forward as possible and it feels like stock. You wouldn't be able to roll them way down.
I think the 3" go about as high as Al's bars, I think you'd need the 4" to go noticeably higher.
Let me know if want me to take any more pics |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 10:30 pm: |
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the Pilot Power 2CT is the single worst tire I have ever used, period.
Wow.
And I thought you hated the D616??  |
Rpm4x4
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 11:28 pm: |
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While I agree with Froggy most of the time, on the topic of 2ct, I very much disagree. The best low speed handling improvement I made to my 1125 was putting 2cts on it. I disliked the handling so much before I put the 2cts on it I almost sold it. I now run PR3 and love them as well. I actually like them more than the 2ct. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 01:26 am: |
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Does anyone know if the long CR clutch line (N0103.1AT) has the angled end at the master cylinder end like an R?
If it does I'll get something made up instead with a straight end..
(I don't suppose anyone knows the length?)
Rpm - Just curious, what did you dislike about the handling before you changed tires? |
Rpm4x4
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 01:48 am: |
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I could not get comfortable in slow speed corners. Most of my problem was tire profile, not compound. I have no doubt that the Pirellis had the grip but I felt like I was riding on low air pressure all the time. Just fighting the bars too much. Some of my problem was also suspension setup. I set the front up way softer than factory specs. Much better feedback. The EBR ecm with its reduced engine braking and smoother low rpm powerband also helped alot. The low speed handling is still not as good as my XB9... and it might never be, but its close. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 08:18 am: |
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Ok, thanks, I know where you're coming from. I remember The Pirelli's certainly did get that "fighting the bike" in the last half of their life.
The Bridgestones don't fight you, but they don't say much either. In hindsight maybe the Pirelli's, at least when they were new, were better than the BT016's in terms of feel. The Bridgestones have been very consistent over their life and have worn very evenly without squaring off.
I have set mine up softer now as well to try and make it feel a little more "loose" and easier to throw around.
It will be interesting when I change tires.
I've been swapping between my two ECM's and doing a little experimenting with TunerPro. After swapping between the two a few times I definitely prefer normal engine braking around the city. I will have to try swapping between the two up in the hills and see what I prefer
I installed the Jardine tonight, itching to see how it feels on the way to work tomorrow  |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 06:12 pm: |
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quote:Wow.
And I thought you hated the D616??
Yep, Pilot Power 2CT is that bad that I can't even dish on the 616 anymore. I have lost all confidence in the handling and abilities of my CR. Wet grip is so bad, that I won't even leave the bike parked in the rain for fear of it slipping out from under the kickstand. Highway speeds the bike wanders and needs constant correction, I would think the bike needed a steering damper if it was my first time on the bike. The tire is THAT bad. Pissed $400 down the drain on them, I'll have to see if I can get them replaced under the wheel and tire plan. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 06:13 pm: |
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quote:The best low speed handling improvement I made to my 1125 was putting 2cts on it. I disliked the handling so much before I put the 2cts on it I almost sold it. I now run PR3 and love them as well. I actually like them more than the 2ct.
Just imagine how great it will handle if you aren't running garbage tires  |
Rpm4x4
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 09:52 pm: |
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I dont know what to say Froggy, maybe 2cts dont do well with 50 psi  I guess we will have to agree to disagree |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 10:00 pm: |
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They don't do well in any of the 3 psi increments I tested from 23-56psi. It actually sucks the least at around 50psi, thats where it is now. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 11:07 pm: |
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Silly question - are you running Power 2CT's front and rear?
Wandering on grooves or on flat pavement?
One thing I've found is the 1125 doesn't like the tire pressures to be very far apart, more than 3 or 4 psi difference and it just doesn't want to turn. These days I run 36F/36R or 34F/36R. Lower gets soggy (on the street), higher is ok but I worry that there's not enough contact patch.
The Jardine is on, is loud but not obscene (though Vamps and the dogs may disagree!), and looks pretty cool . It was raining this morning so I was being cautious, but the bike did feel a little different, I think it was a little easier/faster to throw around. I'm hoping to go for a proper ride on sunday.
There are some flat spots with the stock ECM, the E-B-R ECM will be going back in. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 06:12 am: |
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Lighter exhaust = 
It was dry on the way home and I got to push it a little through some of the big roundabouts. Lighter steering, quicker direction change and it feels "right" mid-turn.
This would be the most significant change I've made so far, wish I'd done it ages ago. Best way I can describe it is that it feels like a smaller bike now. I've only removed 14 pounds but it feels like 40.
I put the E-B-R ECM in, runs much better , but still not a fan of the reduced engine braking  ... I have tried messing around in TunerPro to work out how they're doing it, but ended up loading the original tune back in. I guess I either send it back to E-B-R for re-flash with normal engine braking, or find someone local to dyno tune my stock ECM.
I emailed E-B-R last week about re-flash but no reply yet. |
S21125r
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 10:35 am: |
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Lemmon,
If you can't find a way to put the engine braking back into the EBR ECM, then try the other way round. Take the fuel and spark tables from your EBR ECM and drop them into the OEM ECM. Probably double check to make sure the Load and RPMs scales are the same. If they are not then you'll want to copy those over two. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 05:28 am: |
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I tried along those lines with the stock ECM with mixed results. The two ECM's are quite different in a lot of ways, but exactly the same in many others, so I've been very careful with what I've changed.
Generally the E-B-R ECM is richer in the mid-range and not as rich on the acceleration enrichment, which makes sense. What surprised me is the timing tables have less advance in a lot of the table except for maximum load. Maybe the OEM ECM has a lot of advance for emissions?
I tried the following combinations (before I got the Jardine):
1. E-B-R ECM with IAC settings from OEM.
Result: Engine braking not really any different but ran very rough at part throttle at low rpm.
2. OEM ECM with E-B-R fuel maps, global enrichment value, WOT settings, and accel enrichment settings.
Result: This ran ok, engine braking normal, but hard to tell if more or less power than OEM, I only tried this briefly.
3. OEM ECM with E-B-R fuel and timing tables, WOT settings, fuel PI array values, spark advance reduction array values, accel enrichment values.
Result: This ran smoothly, but noticeably down on power compared to OEM or E-B-R, it just didn't have that pull it normally has.
Where required I changed the load and rpm scales. Testing was done with one eye on the temp reading at all times to make sure I hadn't done anything really silly.
Any thoughts?
There's so many settings... I understand what most of them are but not exactly how they interact with other things. My thoughts are to just add a little fuel in the OEM fuel maps in the midrange where the E-B-R unit does as this is where the Jardine feels lean. I might try #2 first now that the Jardine is fitted and see how it goes. |
Cycledoc59
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 02:50 pm: |
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I made many changes so I could bend
the back roads in comfort; pegs,seat,
suspension changes; tires that didn't understeer...
Perhaps these
photos of my Apex setup will help:
I extended the wiring, rerouted the throttle
cables; all else was ok. I trimmed the
Apex "knuckle" to allow the clamps to fit
correctly. Works great; I'm now in "my"
riding position for all day comfort.
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Carbonrider
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 05:01 pm: |
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That can`t work, the front fork is not pushed through far enough. If the front fork is pushed through far enough, the geometry is changing so far that the machine is very bitchy. |
Cycledoc59
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 05:48 pm: |
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Carbonrider: the front fork is
in it's stock position; not raised
even 1mm above stock. What makes
it look as though it were, is the
use of a thinner top clamp. It works
just fine at that height; clamping depth
is 20mm. |
Duphuckincati
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 08:20 pm: |
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Don't think I'd try many stoppies with that set-up though. |
Cycledoc59
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 09:33 pm: |
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I expect stoppies with any sort
of clip-ons is risky. As a rider
who's first bike was a Harley 74"
in 1959, I'm well past stunts; well
past Harleys too, for that matter. |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 09:55 am: |
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With clamp depth of 20mm I would expect it's fine; maybe not ideal but I would think they'd be ok in a stoppie or emergency stop. The Apex units are very nicely made and mine have been great so far, though they are below the upper triple.
My E-B-R upper triple is on it's way, and I received a longer clutch line from American Sport Bike this week, I hope to put it on this Sunday.
I've messed around a little more with the ECM tuning but it's been raining a lot here so hard to do conclusive testing.
When it's been dry I enjoy riding the bike a lot more now that the Jardine is fitted, so I think I've achieved part of my goal. It feels "sharper" for want of a better word. For example it's easier to change line mid-corner than it was. It also seems to change direction faster.
I dropped into my tyre shop to get oil on wednesday and got talking with the owner about tyres. His thoughts were that most of the "hypersport" and sport tyres around now have a more rounded profile than in the past. Looking on the shelf the Dunlops and the Conti's appear to have the most triangular/pointy profile, though it's hard to tell when they're not mounted on a rim.
He had an interesting suggestion - If I want it to change direction faster I could go to a smaller rear, a 170/60, and the idea makes sense. Most 170/60's are listed as being suitable for a 5.5" rim, though 5.0" is the preferred rim for the tyres I looked at. Anybody ever tried it? |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 11:16 am: |
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Cycledoc59 rationalize all you want, those bar clamps look dangerous. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 11:37 am: |
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A more narrow rear tire is almost always better for handling, the question is will the tire handle the power the bike puts down?
Wider = more rubber on the pavement = better corner exit traction = get on the gas sooner and greater lean angles.
It's one of the reasons you are seeing most of the 180 race tires coming in 180/60 configurations instead of /55 now. The taller tire allows more edge rubber.
The Buell is pretty powerful for a 170, IMHO. |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 01:04 pm: |
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Cycledoc59 rationalize all you want, those bar clamps look dangerous.
If those bars are comfortable, the obvious answer to the problem is to find a set of clamp-ons that use all of the intended clamping surface to attach to the fork legs, and then have a step-up to raise the bars. Or to find a set of bars that has a longer "L" post to fit into those clamps.
I have to cast my vote (for what it's worth) with the majority who look at those bars and envision bad outcomes. IMO cutting the fastening surface in half is not a good idea. One fastening ring is now being stressed to perform the work of two.
Jut my $0.02, rapidly depreciating in intrinsic value due to quantitative easing.
(Message edited by timebandit on January 27, 2012) |
Cycledoc59
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 05:24 pm: |
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Where I placed/clamped the
bar is quite secure/safe, if not,I
would not have done it... If
it looks unsafe to you, do something
else.
Front tire wise, profile varies quite
a lot from one mfg to another, and profile
has a lot to do with handling, especially
regarding understeer/oversteer or the
goal of neutral steering. Buells are very
sensitive to front tire profile, and the
wrong one will make for a tiring, miserable
ride.
I use a contour gauge to compare tire profiles. At the moment, the 1125 really
likes it's Shinko Apex, with perfectly neutral steering. Next time, maybe
something different. |
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