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Timebandit
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 03:44 pm: | 
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> "how would you raise the bikes electrical potential?"
That's easy -- this thread is about the 2008 charging system. If the 2008 Buell charging system's output isn't powerful enough, there's the 2009 Buell charging system. Unfortunately, the 2009 charging system has it's problems.
The add-on that you linked to would involve a fair amount of engineering. There's no way to guarantee that it will work as well as you want it to when you are done. To me, it's not worth the effort. It might be worth the effort to someone else.
Why isn't it worth the effort to me?
I am willing to accept the 1125R as-is for what was intended to be. It is a purpose-built motorcycle that excels as a hypersport bike. I don't have expectations to make it serve a different purpose as a cold weather touring bike.
When it comes to things like cold weather touring, many of the changes that need to be made to make a bike work well in that application will render it less suitable for the hypersport application.
As an example, the uber-sticky summer tires don't grip as well in the cold weather, and the cold-weather all-season tires don't grip as well in warm weather hypersport riding. Electrical system demands are different, baggage requirements are different, the list goes on and on.
For my purposes, when the weather turns cold and I am not longer going to be hypersport riding, I put-up the hypersport bike and ride my BMW boxer. It's set up with less aggressive all-season tires, it has ABS, and it has a 750 watt alternator. It's great in the cold and rain, and the electrical system produces all the power I'll ever need, without producing more power than I actually need. The alternator set-up is very reliable.
I try to keep in mind that the 1125R was designed to be a warm weather hypersport bike, and being what it is, it was designed with an electrical system that focused primarily on moderate power output, light weight and low cost. In contrast the BMW sport touring bikes are designed as heavier bikes. They're willing to accept the extra weight of a more powerful, more expensive, and more reliable charging system.
I know that's probably not the answer that you wanted to hear, but multiple bikes is a solution that works for me. My personal opinion is that if you're always exceeding the capabilities of the charging system then the easiest solution to the problem is to accept that you're on the wrong bike for the application. Just my $0.02. YMMV. |
Oldog
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 04:56 pm: |
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@timebandit
tests were made with an antique triplet meter, ( 12 Amp max current, or a fluke 177 for volts
The voltage tests were made
stopped all off battery volts
stopped all on key and ign
or running at idle,
one series made at 3000 rpm
the one current measurement engine off all on
7.2 Amps @ 10.7 volts the lights were noticably dimmer, ( issue with meter ?? )
I cant insert the meter into the line with the engine running as I have no way of starting it with the meter in line
I want a live current with the engine running, the voltage fluctuated as the regulator operates,
At idle the voltage ( no additional load ) fluctuates between 14+ and about 13.7 the lights on my 08 flicker noticabley. As engine speed increases the voltage drops and becomes more stable ( meter not getting the ripple )
as I add the load of the jacket controller cycling on and off the volts start to hunt again, at 100% on the volts at idle hunt over a wider range dropping into the high 12's with the revs up the volts are fluctuating in the low 13's
I agree with you that when the charging system volts fall under load the system is not keeping up
I wanted to answer the OP's question and not participate in the other stuff.
I recently rode the 1125 25 miles with the heated gear on no issues
the jacket draws 7.4 A
the gloves draw 2.2 A
so in my case I am probably near the limit
the controls were not above 50%
(Message edited by oldog on December 18, 2011) |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 04:56 pm: |
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Practical and well reasoned answer. I am a bit surprised that you don't have some sort of re-engineering opinion.
p.s. If my hands get cold with my Polaris snowmobile gloves on then I can correctly assume that I am in some state of hypothermia (last night) and shouldn't be out there anyway. |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 06:19 pm: |
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I've been around the block a few times when it comes to deciding which projects are commercially viable and worth investing in, and which projects should be avoided.
This is a complex problem that isn't going to be easy to solve.The trouble with engineering a new solution is that it takes a lot of time, effort, and money. When you're dealing with an orphaned product (like these bikes) there is a very limited potential to recoup your investment. The most likely outcome is that you commit a lot of time and money to solving a problem and that you will never be paid back for all of the R&D expense. Some projects aren't worth your time because you'll lose time and money on them. So you have to be selective and focus your efforts on projects that have a chance of being successful.
When it comes to engineering a new solution, it's important to realize that there are some really big hurdles standing in the way. The fact that the bikes are orphaned / out of production is a really hard kick in the teeth for us. It creates a big dis-incentive for anyone interested in approaching the problem.
The market share occupied by this bike is small and getting smaller. There's no incentive for the manufacturer to address the problems; H-D has all of the engineering knowledge about the problems and they're not interested in solving them. They're trying to divorce itself from them.
There's not much incentive for the aftermarket to address complex problems, because they don't have the proprietary engineering knowledge about the problem. Their R&D / engineering expense will be high, and the potential market to pay them for the solution is small.
The best person to fix the problem is EBR. They know more about the problem than anyone else. They have a solution, which is based upon a moderate-output charging system with improved cooling. This solution, along with a series regulator, seems like the best solution available right now, but it doesn't offer high charging output.
It's no coincidence that nobody is offering a high output charging system solution for this bike. The fact that EBR is going in the opposite direction says a lot about what solutions they think are feasible. Maybe they know something that we don't.
I won't hold my breath while we wait for an aftermarket solution. If a better solution ever comes for our bikes, it may have to be an organic, home-grown solution that comes from within the 1125 community. It's going to involve a lot of R&D expense for someone, so it's going to be expensive. The limited target market will mean that someone will have to charge a lot for their product in order to recoup their R&D expenses; the R&D premium will be a large part of the cost for each unit sold. Then there's the real problem that if and when a good solution ever becomes available, it may have cost so much to develop that most customers won't want to buy it.
I've spent a lot of time looking at the charging system problem and for now I've decided to follow the path of least resistance. I do what I can to maximize the enjoyment of my bikes while minimizing the time that I have to actually spend working on them. That way I have more free time to spend riding. Right now my solution is simple -- I change bikes when I have to. |
Bextreme04
| | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 01:33 am: |
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I don't know... haven't had any stator issues yet with my 09'. Changed the VR to the FH0012A about 4,000miles ago and the harness relay at around the same time. My voltage stays at 14.4V at all times. I figure my solution if it does fail will be a custom rewind and i'll have a buddy machine the oiling hole in the rotor and see how long it lasts. Should be less than $200 and a couple days down time and hopefully it will be a permanent fix. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 10:38 am: |
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I have 15Kmi on my bike and connected w/o harness. Bike was harnessed from day one. last few K miles w/o harness, now runs properly with more voltage. From what I have read here, I may have a relay problem. |
Bextreme04
| | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 06:41 pm: |
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yeah my relay only disconnects the leg when it is REALLY hot and at idle... if you had low voltage all the time and it was fixed by removing the harness I would say it was probably either hooked up wrong or the relay was bad. |
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