| Author | Message | ||
     Georgehitch17 |
Hi everyone just a heads up I am currently running the revised Custom rewind stator. This stator is using a gauge lower wire than stock OEM I am currently at about 800 miles and still reading anywhere from 13.5 to 14.1. These are high rpm miles for the most part because I usually run the bike pretty hard. If anyone else is running this version 2 stator post your miles on this thread. Also just for comparison my first custom rewind stator lasted for 730 miles! So far im a few miles past that. Only time will tell how it holds up! | ||
| Dannybuell |
whose RR are you using? | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
unfortunately stock but it doesn't seems to have burn marks and its keeping my volts where I want if someone has a rr suggestion thats guaranteed to run my stator cooler I will consider it | ||
| Shags |
Are you using the fix that shuts off one leg at low rpm, or have you bypassed it. | ||
| Boogman |
I sourced a reputable MC stator rewind service in OZ ... after a few lengthy discussions about our problems and from their experience they used the same approach .. dropped a gauge on the wire and did they quality laquer and baking process.. currently I have about 3000km on the stator at the moment and its been solid ... 13.5 - 14.1 range .. harness removed etc .. They have done a few other buellers stators here in OZ and I havnt heard of any complaints .. although the issues only occured for me after + 5000km.. seems to be working for so far | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
I disconnected the harness upgrade. | ||
| Boogman |
Initially i had left the harness in and did some testing .. voltage dropped to 12.0 V when the phase was turned off when the various conditions were met temp, speed etc ... whilst ok .. batt wasnt getting charge Discussed it with the guys that did the rewind .. as they have experienced this .. and said to remove it .. Since they reduced the output it was expected .. and recommended that the 3 phases should be fine .. as per the 08s Now will all lights indicators, stop light etc ( no additonal acc) solid voltage never below 13.5 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sounds encouraging. So just to summarize, dropping one gauge on the wire means you have a thicker wire with fewer windings. The gauge lowering means the wire has a higher cross sectional area, which means it has a lower resistance for a given length, which means it will stack up less heat in operation. The fewer windings means less current being generated. This means lower peak power, but it also means less internal heat. If it were my problem, I would want the following: 1) thicker wire (lower gauge). 2) fewer windings. 3) a coating with the best durability and heat transfer I can get. 4) a series regulator (stock is shunt). | ||
| Dannybuell |
Reepicheep - That would be my choice as well. This is the de facto state of the art. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
over 1,000 miles of very high rpm riding. all is good and still reading around 13.9 volts | ||
| Dannybuell |
As many of you already know, I have complained in the past that the Erik Buell Racing ecm could not keep my battery charged in urban riding with the harness. I recently went back to 'no harness' like the video and Georgehitch17 have done. I have about 100 miles of urban riding this way. The voltage goes to 13.8, does not drop nearly as much. No more battery light, battery is now happy. The darn thing is NOW getting enough voltage to run like a bat out of ..... If this reduces the stator's life, I have rationalized that that quality is way more important than quantity. | ||
| Posplayr |
Reepicheep a couple of comemnts about your post: Increasing the wire size of the windings does reduce resistance, but if you have a SHUNT R/R that is not really a good thing. I would only increase the wire size with a SERIES R/R then there is a lower power due to the lower resistance. With shunt shorting the winding the little but of resistance is what stops the stator from burning up. Of course the magnetics will probably also saturate, so it is a toss up if that really helps or hurts with a SHUNT R/R. But a SERIES it is a plus. As far as the windings: fewer winding will not nessesarily help. The power output of a PM generator goes up to the square of RPM until the magnetics start to saturate which is the primary limiting factor. So if you lower your windings by 10% say, which will drop the voltage output by 10% at a given RPM, all it takes is a 10% increase in RPM to put you at the same voltage as the original winding. So this just reduces the voltage at low RPM and doesn't limit the power at higher RPM. Also improved oil spray cooling would be the best for removing heat. I have never worked on one of these, but this writeup on GS charging system health applies equally well to your Buell wether it's SHUNT or SERIES R/Rs http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.ph p?t=152769 (Message edited by posplayr on August 06, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I was thinking that even with a shunt regulator, a larger diameter wire would mean less resistance, so the power dissipation would be moved (proportionally) out of the stator and into the VR. Thinking about it though, I think I agree with you. Lower series resistance on the whole thing means higher current flow through the whole system. Your other point is good as well... you are suggesting that the stator saturates pretty quickly as RPM's climb, so fewer windings won't matter as much as a linear model would suggest. Thanks! | ||
| Rt_performance |
I'll look there was some cool temp photo's some where stock rr verse a series. I wish i could have taken part in the thick wire but with limited tools and time i had to get a hd one put in | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Just a update on my V2 custom rewind stator I have put roughly 1700 miles on and its going strong still reading 14+ volts at times | ||
| Dannybuell |
Georgehitch17 - Great news! I forgot, you are NOT using the harness? | ||
| Kinder |
FYI... I'm running a RW stator. Larger wire, fewer windings and no external coatings (my rewinder suggested it as if heat is the culprit maybe the insulator is trapping heat) with the compufire. I have pics I can post pre install if wanted. Stator reads mids 30's all legs at 3000rpm. Bike shows mid 13's at speed and drops to low 12's stop and go. EeBbRr ECM, PCV w Auto tune, barker, stacks, K&N, harnes in is there but stator plugged directly to VR (need to do proper removal), just below overfill level on dip stick during hot check. Not alot of kms so far (maybe 400?) but so far bike seems to run cooler (80C) and responds fine. (Message edited by kinder on August 22, 2011) | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Kinder's is creating less electricity but as long as it functions who cares!! And that is correct I have no harness hooked up and I'm running the eebbrr ECM which seems to use the fans alot more! | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
I've got about 2500 on the Version 2 stator and she still reads 14 volts at times!!! I praying I have this issue cured! | ||
| Jules |
I've only managed to put 500 miles on my rewound stator so far but it's still showing ~14.1V at all times  I did notice that my 08 stator that arrived on Friday is also varnish coated (like my rewind) rather than the hard epoxy of the stock 09 so i am hoping that's a good sign. The 08 settup is now safely in abox in the garage "just in case" but for now my rewind is working better than the OEM setup ever did. I've removed the harness "upgrade" and stopped worrying about low voltages at stop lights. Fingers crossed.. | ||
| Kinder |
Pulled the harness fully out Sunday and added a ground to the VR. Now reads mid 14's at speed but still drops to low 12's in stop and go. So far so good I guess? | ||
| Glide |
I have installed my rewound stator and totally removed the harness. A short ride showed 13.5 volts at idle and 13.9 - 14.1 at speed. I think Gary wound this with a slightly smaller wire than stock. I am hard of hearing and we had trouble communicating. The original lasted 9700 miles but never really kept the battery up with the harness installed. Will update as miles are added. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Well guys its toast again at about 3000 miles My bike wouldnt start after changing my oil which seemed odd. So I jumped it and now im reading 11.7-8 at a 5k rpm cruise. Im so sick of this!!! I absolutely love the bike but damn!! Ill call gary on tomorrow Im gonna go one size larger on the wire | ||
| Tbowdre |
I spoke with Gary past week and told how my stator looked almost black on the top1/2 that is likely sticking out of the oil. He basically thinks we are screwed and we need to do something else. He wants to help and said he knows a guy with some capitol that might be interested in helping us get a new rotor. In other words an aftermarket 2008 type set up. Gary's on vacation now but when he gets back he is planning to look into this. This was the end of last week Just thought I would pass this on | ||
| Jules |
That's a shame... but I think it should be "Gary thinks we're screwed getting them from him". I'm not questioning his work ethics or his standards but just because one rewind company can't get it to work doesn't mean they'll all fail.. It is possible, but it's not a certainty. I'm not a big fan of all the heavy epoxy crud that goes on a lot of the rewinds. I am much more a fan of the varnish I have on mine. Mine's not done anywhere near enough miles for me to be at all confident, but so far 700+ miles and ~13.9V all the time. We pretty much know the 08 setup works, but I guess it's debatable whether the rotor makes a difference, I think it's all stator (personally) so in theory a rewind should work..... although obviously it's not looking good at the moment from this one source. Again - I am not bashing Gary, but that is only one supplier. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Jules I agree Gary's work looks nice. But when I mentioned to a electrical engineer that I was having the a smaller wire put on the stator. He laughed and said you do realize smaller wire will create more resistance which means more heat, he then said are you sure your guy knows what he's doing????? As I've mentioned in previous threads my rewound stator that has a gauge thicker wire seems to be producing more output than the stock with smaller wire. I am going to get ahold of Gary and have him go one size bigger than what is currently on there | ||
| Jules |
When I spoke to the rewind company I used they explained their process, and it's a LOT of work. They unwind the current wire by hand, bead blast the core, powdercoat it then slow bake that. They measure the guage of the wire and use the same guage but a lower %age oxygen version precoated with varnish. They hand wrap the core to the same spec as original, then add a coat of varnish before slow baking the stator at a low temperature. I never realised so much work went into these things so I guess reverse engineering a solution is bound to have a few hiccups. What I would say though is that a smaller diameter wire would (a) generate more heat and (b) produce a (unneccessarily) higher output. In addition, the epoxy resin bonding would insulate the windings which would also (unfortunately) trap much of that heat in the windings and not allow the oil to cool them. Some of the above is my speculation, but if I remember my EE training I'm pretty sure I'm not far off the mark.. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Well Jules what should we do at this point. Call the rewind company and have him wrap me a new stator with a gauge larger than previous wire (which was already larger than stock) We have room to create less power imo. My bike was running 13.8+ all day long so I think running a gauge bigger wouldnt hurt. I also think less of that green epoxy should be applied. after looking after different makes and models of stators most have that clear varnish on it. | ||
| Jules |
I think the grade of the wire is at least as important as the gauge. Cu-OF (Oxygen Free) copper is the best for this type of application, so it'd be worth checking with Gary what grade of copper he uses. It's also worth noting that "going UP a gauge" will actually give you a thinner wire so if you want a thicker wire (larger diameter) then you want to go DOWN a gauge. AWG 11 for example is 0.0907 inches diameter AWG 10 is 0.1019 inches in diameter I only point that out as it's possible to miscommunicate your intent to the rewinder if you ask for a bigger gauge, when you really mean a thicker wire (smaller gauge). Can Gary use varnish instead of hard epoxy and can he use Cu-0F copper? Again - I'm only expressing my opinion... | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
oops my bad about the gauge! Thats what I meant though I plan on lowering the gauge! I'll ask him about the wire and varnish also! |
