| Author | Message | ||
     Stirz007 |
I like anchovies - just not too many of them at once. | ||
| Sprintst |
Well using that logic, no two 1125R's have the same cylinders. No production parts are absolutely identical  So then if we are trying to be honest, they are not the same cylinders} | ||
| Blake |
>>> Well using that logic, no two 1125R's have the same cylinders. Incorrect. You're confused about my logic. My logic is based on standard manufacturing technology. Yours is apparently based on snowflakes and fingerprints.  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
So you still dont know the differences for sure? Please think on it, several of us are curious. | ||
| Jacob83z28 |
The title of this thread is "Cases-1125 vs. 1190". No one asked if the intake or fuel system is the same. "The engine carried by that frame is essentially a bored-out version of the 1125R powerplant, now displacing 1190cc. Perhaps more importantly, every one of its reciprocating components has either been replaced with a part from the Buell Superbike program, or a part closely related to such a part. Valves are titanium, the camshafts are straight from the 1125RR Superbike, the connecting rods are machined from forged steel blanks by an American company (rather than the F1-like titanium parts of the 1098R), and the three-ring, 106mm pistons manage to be lighter and stronger than the 103mm forged pistons of the 1125R." It dosen't say "New cases, New heads, New cylinders". I can change the pistons and cams and valves and intake and crank on my 1200. That dosen't mean I have new cases or heads or cylinders. | ||
| Clutchreaper |
If the heads are made from the same castings then they are the same heads. Different heads would mean that an 1125 head's casting would not match that of the 1190. I'm not seeing any support of this, but then again I don't know all of the specs. Valves are valves. Heads are heads. I don't know if there is a valve size difference between the 1190 and 1125 off the top of my head, but if the heads were machined to accept bigger valves then it is just a modded head since the 1125 head could be machined, or ported depending on the flow numbers, to the same specs of the 1190 since the castings are the same. It would be like me sending off a pair of Pontiac 6X heads to fit the valves and be ported to match #16 heads and then calling them #16 heads. No, they're just worked over 6X heads. I'm done now.  | ||
| Clutchreaper |
I know the discussion is about the cases. I was just showing an example of how some parts are considered 'different' but are really not especially if they have the same casting numbers. What is done with the part after the manufacturing process is up to the buyer. | ||
| Blake |
Mentally masturbate all you like. The cylinder heads on the 1190 are not the same as those on the 1125. Contending so is like telling us that Cycle Rama prepared heads are the same as OEM heads. Boy would that be a really dumb claim to make. It would be a lie. There seems to be some kind of queer obsession by some here, many recent contributors, to try to belittle the 1190RS and the efforts of the good folks at Erik Buell Racing. Intentional or not, I won't allow it, not here on BadWeB. Owens, or whoever you really are, You have my best answer. If the issue is that interesting to you, do your own research. The points of contention that some, you included, choose to raise while ignoring blatant falsehoods are very telling. | ||
| Blake |
>>> "If the heads are made from the same castings, then they are the same heads." Using that bizarre logic, a finely crafted longbow is the same as a plank of yew. | ||
| Blake |
It's also bizarre to imagine that precision machining is somehow not a "manufacturing process." | ||
| Sprintst |
forget the heads - the burning question - is the kickstand the same? Sure looks like it........... (Message edited by sprintst on July 20, 2011) | ||
| Jdugger |
> is the kickstand the same? Yea. And mirrors, and a bunch of smaller ancillary parts are too. The bikes are at least cousins if not siblings. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
"awww look at him, he's got his daddy's mirrors, don't he?" "Yep... and he got his daddy's kick stand too" "Oh Behave!" | ||
| Sprintst |
actually, it's not the same kickstand. It will have a different part number Doh! | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Owens, or whoever you really are, You have my best answer. If the issue is that interesting to you, do your own research. " Funny you think I am not who I say I am, thats nothing but class! So your best answer is 'I know they are different but I cant tell you how'? nice. | ||
| Daggar |
If you care that much, why don't you send an email to Erik Buell Racing? | ||
| Sprintst |
Shh, they are busy racing. Don't bother them with silly questions | ||
| Dannybuell |
Look a squirrel! | ||
| Clutchreaper |
A queer obsession? Maybe by some. Let me copy and paste from cycleworld so that we can we can shut this one down. The engine carried by that frame is essentially a bored-out version of the 1125R powerplant, now displacing 1190cc. Perhaps more importantly, every one of its reciprocating components has either been replaced with a part from the Buell Superbike program, or a part closely related to such a part. Valves are titanium, the camshafts are straight from the 1125RR Superbike, the connecting rods are machined from forged steel blanks by an American company (rather than the F1-like titanium parts of the 1098R), and the three-ring, 106mm pistons manage to be lighter and stronger than the 103mm forged pistons of the 1125R. A thicker-than-1125R base gasket is used to reduce compression to something suitable for pump gasoline, while its removal allows a very rapid path to full-Superbike tune. The new airbox—autoclave-molded from pre-preg material—is an integral part of the power package, its floor dipping down between the frame rails and encompassing the throttle bodies rather than starting above them. It roughly doubles airbox volume from the 1125R, and allows the bigger engine to develop is full top-end power. In street tune, complying with EPA emission and noise requirements, rear-wheel power will be in the same range as a Ducati 1198. The simple addition of a race pipe and ECU boosts output substantially higher, to something close to that of the 1125RR which Geoff May rode in 2010 AMA Superbike races. That’s not too surprising as the internal parts are so similar; the amazing thing is that Erik Buell Racing was able to get this engine, in this tune, through noise and emission tests. Credit that in part to a very refined fuel map, and two very expensive catalysts in the big main muffler. You can figure out what is and what isn't different by reading article as far as the powerplant goes. | ||
| Jacob83z28 |
I've done that two times in this thread and once on another. According to some it doesn't prove anything. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Blake bro you gotta chill no one here is belittling the 1190 or the herculean effort that has been mustered to make the 1190RS real and tangible. in fact i believe that the intense search for information is in fact an attempt to emulate it on our 1125R/CR bikes. I think it's easy to say that most of us don't have an extra $40-50k laying around for a copy let alone there are only 100 going to be made, not enough to go around. so please relax this thread and the other one has nothing to do with bashing Erik or the 1190 rather our attempts to make our 1125s even better | ||
| Kinder |
Using that bizarre logic, a finely crafted longbow is the same as a plank of yew. This comparison is wrong. It implies that the raw materials are the same as the end product. Using the bow analogy this would be like taking that fine handcrafted yew bow and replacing the sinew string with a FastFlight or Dyneema string. Much better performance. Same bow different string/part. Boogiman has it right.. | ||
| Northernyankee |
Well said Boogiman! | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
nothing about the cases, guess Blake was incorrect in stating that the cases were not the same. | ||
| Froggy |
Or Steve forgot to mention any changes, or they got edited out for article length. I don't know if the cases are different or not, but just because the article didn't mention them doesn't mean they aren't different or modified in some way. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
That 1190 engine is a (highly) modified 1125 motor. Since the 1125 motor is badass, the 1190 motor is badder-ass. NOthing wrong with the 1190 roots being tied to the 1125 Helicon. I don't see the issue, other than Blake not wanting to admit he might be wrong on some counts. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The mighty Small Block Chevy engine started out as a dinky little 265 cubic incher...the architecture is identical to the 500 hp 383 stroker motor I had in my old Chevy II...All hail Zora Arkas Duntov!! Proves evolution is more than a theory . Nothing beats the continued refinement of a sound and proven design... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Froggy, thats a good point Now if Blake can just back up his claims that he KNOWS that the cases on the two are not the same. | ||
| Stirz007 |
Engineers are NEVER wrong - ask any Contractor. They ARE sometimes mistaken, however, but that's usually a result of being provided bad data. JM (P.E.) | ||
| Jacob83z28 |
Just cuz they're modified doesn't mean they're not 1125 cases. I can modify my 1200 to accept bigger jugs but that doesn't mean they're not the same cases. Now if I bought S&S cases for my M2 then yeah there not the same cases, they're all new. I would believe if you put an 1125 next to an 1190 ( I'm talking engines alone not the whole bike)you couldn't tell them apart until you took them apart. Now if you put a 1200 next to an S&S (sportster style) you could tell just by looking at them. As Boogiman says "no one here is belittling the 1190 or the herculean effort that has been mustered to make the 1190RS" I own three Buells two Tubers and a CR. If I had the money I would love to have an 1190, if anything just to try and support there efforts to build motorcycles and race. Buells are the only motorcycles I've ever owned and probably will ever own. Maybe some day an E B R. I'm sure they've made improvements to the the cases (oil jets for stater) but they take 1125 cases and modify them, or so they say. That just tells me I can have my 1125cc turned into an 1190cc, just like I can to my M2. |
