| Author | Message | ||
     Mickeyq |
It's so ironic to me that a street bike available for sale is required to add weight to qualify for AMA racing!! Blows my mind. So, maybe a "race" muffler that weighs the needed 25 Lbs is the best place to put this weight?? | ||
| Avc8130 |
Nah, the put the weight up high on the subframe. 25# block according to Geoff May himself in the interview on Speed. | ||
| D_adams |
Actually, I think that would be ideal. I saw the weights they had for the 1190RR last year, I'm a little surprised they didn't use something similar. Mounting it low (under the swingarm) would be my guess for where to put it. | ||
| Craigg |
Well the Corvette ZR1 has too much HP to race which is funny that the Racing version has less HP, so I could see it but that just shows how well the bike is built. Just like the ZR1 | ||
| Froggy |
Being that they are underweight and are forced to add weight, they can put it exactly where they want to optimize the handling. It is a nice problem to have  | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
I dont get the weight requirement. whats the purpose? | ||
| Court |
Parity | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
 | ||
| Froggy |
Weight is one of many tools used in racing to help keep performance even between bikes. If one bike seems to have an unfair advantage over there rest, they will cripple it. Just like a few years back in AMA Sportbike, the 1125R was penalized and had its minimum weight raised while some of the competitors had their minimum weight lowered. | ||
| Court |
Parity on Wayne . . . Parity on Garth. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Apperently google is not my friend. LOL  | ||
| Ratbuell |
No...but awesome movie anyway! Inconceivable!! | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
I understand the weight in Daytona Sportbike but in Superbike I really dont. It seems to limit development to racers to me. 25 lb weight? I mean really, thats almost obscene. So when the 1125 was racing 30+ hp down I didnt hear anybody trying to limit anybody elses HP or adding weight to even the class. I wouldnt expect them to either. The minimum weight requirement in Superbike is something I just cant wrap my head around. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
from what i understand the weight requirements are more to help the 'little' guy that anything else. the factory $$pon$ered teams have more acce$$ than say a privateer or smaller factory(Erik Buell Racing) thus they set a minimum weight in the class in order to help level the playing field. with the cost of everything going down overall and the ability of even an educated goon to run engineering software that' less of an issue i think. clearly the little guys like EB R have the ability if they are having to add weight. granted Erik has decades of racing and design experience. even so i think that's where the weight min's come from | ||
| Trojan |
Isn't the weight penalty more to do with the rules regarding 1190/1200 twins racing against 1000cc fours rather than factory vs privateer? In which case the KTM RC8R would be subject to the same weight penalty/restrictions as the 1190 no? WSB uses a similar weight penalty for the 1198 Ducati, although this is looked at and adjusted every few rounds to make sure that the parity is ensured. If the Ducati starts to run away with the series then they increase the weight penalty, and vice versa. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
could be i'm new to bike racing so if i'm wrong forgive me | ||
| Avc8130 |
The weight penalty is stupid. It pretty much limits technology. Screw "parity". If they want "parity" they should run it like Moto 2. This is supposed to be a street based bike class. Let the bikes be as light and as fast as the factories can SELL to the public. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
i agree if the weights are stupid i think that within a displacement class that you should be able to 'run whatcha brung' | ||
| Froggy |
It limits your weight, not your suspension, your wheels, your braking systems, your horsepower, your gear ratios, electronics, etc. So what if you can't be lighter than the rest? Beat them in other ways. Yea there are rules regarding just about every part on the bike, and they can all be pushed to the limit and still improved upon. Like with the weight limit, it is total mass, so you can put the weight where you want it and away from where you don't want it, like on the wheels. | ||
| Reepicheep |
There's where people keep going wrong.  It's a street bike class if your streetbike is a $75,000 GSXR-1000 that gets a new motor every 500 miles. Unless, of course, you buy an 1190RS. Then it is a $40,000 street bike. Not sure how long that motor will last driven in anger, but I bet it's 10x as long as the front running inline fours will last... | ||
| Avc8130 |
Froggy, EVERYTHING in your list has rules for it also. Good call with putting the weight "where you want it". Then you can run a $400 lightweight battery...and put a 25lb chunk of steel directly below it. Nice and high on the subframe...well centralized for your "mass centralization". Everyone "wants" a light street bike. If they change the rules to keep it more stree bike oriented, we would get lighter street bikes for $13k. The way it is now, they fight to hit a certain weight and might as well stop. Buell beat the weight...on their street bike...and got "penalized" for it. I am not so sure about that 500 miles. I THOUGHT they have an engine limit for the year. Most street bike racing series do. Either way, if they are allowed to tear down and rebuild the motor after each race, every serious team would. | ||
| Froggy |
Yep I said that | ||
| Trojan |
Either way, if they are allowed to tear down and rebuild the motor after each race, every serious team would. They do. That is what makes them serious teams (that and lots of money!). Even Supersport teams rebuild their motors after every meeting, and Superbike teams treat that as normal practice. | ||
| Imonabuss |
To control mega factory spending, how about a rule that says "Bikes may have sidestand, lights, mirrors and mufflers removed. No further weight changes allowed." And a claiming rule of, say, $50K. I know how much the factories hated the claiming rules, but doesn't that tell you something? It would be interesting to see how the bikes would stack up then. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Craigg - WOW Corvette ZR1 race cars are detuned from street. Avc8130 - 'This is supposed to be a street based bike class. Let the bikes be as light and as fast as the factories can SELL to the public.' That makes a lot of sense. | ||
| Court |
>>>It would be interesting to see how the bikes would stack up then. What bikeS? It'd look like an Erik Buell Racing demo ride. One of my favorite moments of the weekend was when the PBS fellow asked me "what's different about this bike?" I told him "you can put the lights, signals and mirrors back on it and ride it home from here without breaking any laws". A bit of a stretch . . but damn close. | ||
| Blake |
Weight to help create parity, okay, but when was the last time a 1200cc twin dominated in AMA SBK? Answer, never. So why does AMA Pro Racing impose a 10 LB penalty on them? I agree, minimum weight ought to be based on the bike that is available for sale to the public. Some adjustment for production quantity may be warranted, otherwise we end up with limited production specials. But to have to add an additional 25 LBs to a production machine to make it 10 LBs heavier than the bikes that are completely dominating every race is REALLY bizarre. They did at least reduce the twin cylinder weight penalty from 20 LBs to 10 LBs, once they figure out that didn't change the parity, hopefully they'll drop it altogether. | ||
| Avc8130 |
"Some adjustment for production quantity may be warranted, otherwise we end up with limited production specials." I assume 100 would be the "production quantity"...otherwise we might end up with the Buell being a "limited production special". | ||
| Court |
>>>I assume 100 would be the "production quantity"...otherwise we might end up with the Buell being a "limited production special". No worries. Erik Buell Racing products for folks like you and I will be here before you know it . . . | ||
| Fresnobuell |
From the trap speeds, I would say the weight penalty for the Twins has to go. Not only does it hurt top speed, but it has a negative affect on handling, tire wear etc. IMO, the weight penalty is to appease the IL4 supporters, who choose only to see the +200cc displacement advantage of the twins and scream foul. |
