| Author | Message | ||
     Tbowdre |
I keep reading and I think I am becoming more stupid what voltage regulator should I get as an upgrade? I "thought" the compufire 55402 was a switching regulator and not a shunt type... (ie) the best option. I know the mosfet options seem to still be shunt type regulators but do a better job because of upgraded circuits. anyway wanna take a stab at educating me? thanks | ||
| Ezblast |
I have that same question! EZ | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Re'd this from Posplayr earlier: Richard, No worries. The Compufire SERIES R/R is about as efficient as is possible to be and in fact is even more efficient than an alternator. I'll summarize a little so you understand the categories. Most of our charging systems are what is know as Permanent Magnet generators, while some others are known as alternators. The main difference is that a PM generator uses magnets to puts out more and more power with RPM ; the only thing that limits it is a R/R or the max power available from the magnetics. The alternator does not have a permanent magnet, but rather controls an electromagnet. So as the RPM goes up the alternator reduces the current going to the electro magnet which there bu limits output. So this brings us to the PM generator and how to limit power from it. First variation is SHUNt v.s. SERIES. The SHUNT just shorts the windings when there is too much power. It is like dimming the lights in your room by shorting out a wall socket. The lights dim and without a fuse you would burn out the house wiring(analogy to the stator windings). The SERIES basically just opens and closes a light switch quickly. That causes the light to dim based on the duty cycle of how long it is on v.s. off. The SERIES is much better on the house wiring (the analogy of the stator winding) OK in Power Supply Design beside also having SERIES and SHUNT there is also something called Switching and Linear. The Linear regulators are also known typically called SERIES but it is really a completely different animal. A typical linear regulator is used for DC to DC drop down regulation. That means for example you take in 12-24V DC and you regulate it down to 5V. The SERIES regulator produces the 5V out by dropping voltage (and gertting hot at teh sametime) either 7V when 12V is coming in or 19V when 24V is coming in. This is very inefficient and only works when there is very little current being supplied. THIS IS NOT HOW THE COMPUFIRE WORKS. 5/12V is about 40% efficent and 5/25 is 20% effcient The other type of regulator is know as a Switcher. This is very similar in principle to the COMPUFIRE from an efficiency stand point but I would not call the COMPUFIRE a true switcher in the conventional sense. For a motorcycle forum you could call it a switcher, but it is not really one. The difference between a true switcher is that the switcher runs at a high frequency 5-10 Khz chopping the incoming DC to limit the output voltage as a function of the switch duty cycle. They usually chop at a rate independent of the input. The Chopping regulator also has a fairly significant energy storage device (capacitor/inductor) at the output to smooth the output voltage (as part of the switching regulator). Almost all of the SHUNT,FET and SERIES R/R's for the PM 3 phase on the motorcycles switch, but they switch synchronously with the 3 phase AC. For a 18 pole stator the frequency is RPM/10. So at 10K RPM you are a 1K hz maximum. This is well below what most true switches operate. If you look up DC to DC power supply, those are the classic Switches power supplies. Other than this speed difference, the Compufire SERIES R/R and the DC to DC switching regulator are similar as both are series designs. It is just a different application. Both operate in the 90-95% efficiency range. (power transfered vs total power consumed) in contrast to the SERIES Linear design. Hope that is clear; you can post the explanation if you like | ||
| Tpoppa |
Either the Compufire or the Shindengen FHxxx is going to be an improvement over the stocker. The stock VR seems to do OK with the 08 stator, but the 09 stator puts out 20% more power...no small amount. The obvious problem is that heat is building up in the charging system...see photos of cooked 09 stators. While I think the 09 stator is of lower quality & the VR is also problematic...I think the best way to describe the problem is that the components of the 09 charging systems are not well matched to each other. The harness upgrade removes some heat from the system, but at a cost of barely enough power to run the ignition, lights, & fans while keeping the battery charged. I am going to try the FH008EB with and without the harness upgrade. It'll be a few weeks, but I'll post results. | ||
| Reepicheep |
While I didn't dissect that discussion in great detail, the post from Posplayr that Finedaddy1 posted sounds 100% correct to me. (For what that's worth) So the compufire sounds like a switching power supply. That's good news, and should help the stator have more margin. If the bike ever "needs" full power at the magic (bad magic) operating envelope though, the regulator will do what it is supposed to do and deliver all that power, meaning the stator can still burn up. At which point you just rewind it with a quality rewinding shop using the best high temperature coatings they can get. The two together (stator rewind, compufire regulator) will probably solve the problem. | ||
| Manor |
Now would'nt it be nice if Mr Erik Buell Racing or Harley acknowledged these problems, then entered into an agreement with Compufire to provide a full kit (VR and Stator) to us at cost. Now that would be after-care worth talking about. Errrrrrr!! Sum chance me thinks, John  | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
I concur guys! One way or another I think (WE) can nail this thing. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Ok, I'm not fully understanding the pro of compufire vs mosfet. What is the basic advantage? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bottom line difference: 1) A MOSFET shunt regulator has the stator outputing maximum possible current for the given RPM 100% of the time. 2) A switching regulator only has the stator outputting as much current as the bike actually needs at any given time. So under a lot of situations, a switcher will be putting less current through your stator, which means less heat being pumped into it, which buys you some thermal margin. Though if its an oil cooling circulation problem, who knows if the extra margin is at the right place at the right time. The HD fix does a similar thing, it opens up a loop of the stator, but is a little smarter about it in terms of protecting the stator. It knows (apparently) what conditions are dangrous, and kills 1/3 the stator capacity at those moments. Hopefully. But it also can lead to the bike being starved for power at those moments when it has gone into damage control mode... | ||
| Buellmojo |
I have had the harness on mine since the new engine has been installed (2010 engine), it will, and has caused no start situation's for me after just short intervals of stop and go in town riding. The battery has been tested 3 separate times, and it showed no faults. If I decide to keep my 1125, I too will certainly need to do an upgrade on the charging system. Thank you for all of the information shared. It is very disappointing that Buell, Erik Buell Racing, and Harley Davidson has pretty much ignored this issue for these motorcycles, and left it up to their customers to sort through this issue. Congratulations and great job to all that has stepped up to the plate!!! | ||
| Froggy |
That is not true. Buell had a better solution in the works, but was forced to do the harness solution by Harley Davidson. And despite it not being Erik Buell Racing's problem or responsibility, they have offered a solution from the beginning. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Buell doesn't exist. Erik Buell Racing was not contracted by Harley Davidson to continue support of the brand, Harley Davidson has (and has asserted) that responsibility. In fact, at the time of separation, Harley Davidson forced Erik Buell personally to execute a non disclosure and non compete agreement that would legally preclude him from competing with Harley Davidson. There is somebody to blame, but it isn't Buell or Erik Buell Racing. Harley Davidson has let down Buell owners and failed (so far) to keep their commitments made after the shutdown with Buell. Future motorcycle buyers should take this into account when considering the purchase of a new bike. Erik Buell Racing actually has given you two paths to redemption. The first is expensive... buy a new stator and voltage regulator from the first year of production (that I don't think have the problems). For that, you are probably out of pocket $500 to $1000. The cheaper option is to buy the $42,000 1190 RS. Do that, and you spent $42,000 on probably $75,000 worth of motorcycle. It's like money in the bank.  Or just rewind the stator at a derated output with good high temp coatings, and add the compufire regulator. I bet that solves the problem. Annoying that Harley Davidson failed to keep their promise to you, but hardly a major obstacle you will face in life. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
I hardly think there is $75,000 worth of motorcycle in the 1190RS. Maybe if you include R&D hours, but not $75k worth of parts and labor to assemble. | ||
| Froggy |
Top shelf Ohins suspension, magnesium wheels, carbon fiber body work, hand built motor with titanium parts, plus lots of other exotic goodies. I looked up the dashboard, which alone goes for $2k. It adds up very fast, there is no way to build the same bike for $40k even if you attempted to build it yourself. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Reepicheep- "Bottom line difference" Very well put!  | ||
| Tpoppa |
Buell had a better solution in the works What was it? | ||
| Froggy |
At a minimum a different stator for 2011 models, it probably would of been a warranty retrofit. | ||
| Tpoppa |
EBarrrr could still do that. Not under warranty, but they could work with any of the stator rewinders to spec a replacement. | ||
| Rt_performance |
But being he is forbid to use the 1125r for street use it isn't gonna happen. I did the fh00 and a rewind but i got 10k on my stator and it hadn't failed yet. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Rt, where did you mount yours? | ||
| Tpoppa |
But being he is forbid to use the 1125r for street use it isn't gonna happen. I don't see how that's relevant. Hundreds of company make aftermarket parts for HDs. There is nothing stopping EBaRRR or any other company from making an after market stator for 1125s. Frankly, that would be a great show of support from EBaRRR. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Tpoppa +1 | ||
| Rt_performance |
Mine is on the stock bracket conectors pointed back. it is slightly narrower but worked well there . had it all installed conectors foward and then realized the rear plastic wouldn't fit due to the rear seat lock | ||
| Rt_performance |
tpoppa. HE needs income and get in new production. I agree it would be a great show of support. But he offers a fix in the form of 2008 stator ,cover and rotor but we all want somthing cheaper...... | ||
| Tpoppa |
If HE offered a new 09 Stator HE would sell a ton of them and generate some income. Rewind shops are willing to do the work. It would be great to get them some firm specs. The Custom Rewind option may be just fine, but it's still trial and error ant this point. The 08 parts are available, but expensive and you need a special tool to change & torque the rotor. |
