| Author | Message | ||
     Pwillikers |
2009 1125cr, build date: 0109 6.5K miles: The battery light started coming on at idle. A couple days later it barely started and the voltage slowly dropped from 12.1 eventually down to 10.7 as I, literally, rolled into the dealership's parking lot. The stator was dead and was replaced and the "harness upgrade" installed under warranty. 7K miles: The tiny T10 bulb between the headlights burns out. I replace it with an LED version, white light, low power consumption, lasts forever, vibration proof. Good all around, right? 8K miles: When I start it up first thing in the AM, it starts and runs for about three seconds at 2K RPMs then dies. It restarts fine but dies again. It'll do this three or four times before it settles into a low, rough idle. After it warms up, it'll start up and keep running as it should at the normal idle (~1300RPM) 8.1K miles: When it's cold out, the Low Fuel Light (LFL) comes on even when the tank is full. Research on the BadWeb suggests the instrument cluster (IC) has bad old software and should be replaced. 9.1K miles: On a sustained high speed run, I stopped for five minutes and the bike failed to restart with at dead battery. The bike is still under warranty, so back to the dealer it goes. I ask the dealer to fix all three issues: starts then dies, LFL comes on when the tank is full and the charging system failure. A week later they call me to pick up the bike. My wife drops me off and heads home. The service writer explains that the "strobe light I wired into my electrical system is wired to a hot lead and is a constant draw on the battery. This is what caused my charging system to fail and since I was the one who installed it, it is not covered under warranty and I’ll have to pay for the time the tech spent diagnosing and repairing it.” I explained 1. I have never installed anything in to the wiring harness, 2. Strobe light? What strobe light? I did replace the failed T10 running light with an LED bulb. Is that the bulb he's referring to? 3. If it is, I assured him it is all stock wiring and surely not on a hot lead since it obviously turns on and off with the ignition and 4. Even is all this were true, it makes no sense to suggest that a milliwatt bulb could cause a charging system to fail immediately after a sustained ride. I re-asserted that the charging system is at fault. The service writer suggests, “maybe it was the previous owner that cut into the wiring system and installed the strobe light”. I explain that I am the original owner. I bought the bike right here at this dealer with less than ten miles on the odometer. I asked that he please consult a parts manual to ensure that the bulb and wiring is stock. He goes off into the service area and I see him walk back and forth from the parts counter to the service bay. Then I see the service manager is called into the conversation. The service writer comes back a half hour later and says they are working on it and thanks for my patience. I sit patiently. A half hour later, I request a status and am informed that the tech and the service manager are working on it. I’ve now been waiting for an hour and a half. I ask that he call me when they have it fixed. My wife comes to retrieve me. I have been courteous through out. A few days go by and I stop by the dealer for a status. At this point I’ve got no confidence that they will fix it and I’m worried that they’re going to make it worse. I ask to speak to the service manager. He explains that he, the tech and HD support have spent a great deal of time on this and are convinced that “the aftermarket strobe light I installed in my bike was consuming the entire output of the charging system and even though I was riding for a long period of time, it slowly drained my battery and caused it to not start. As such, I am responsible for the tech’s time diagnosing and replacing the bulb with a stock bulb.” I explain that this is entirely illogical. The output of the stator is over 500Watts and it is absurd to suggest that a milliwatt bulb could consume that much power without physically burning itself up or melting the surrounding wires. The service manager tells me that he discussed this at length with HD tech support and they will not warranty the problem because it was caused by an aftermarket, customer installed accessory - my LED T10 bulb. He offers that he will give me a break on the time spent and only charge me $141 for this issue. With respect to the LFL coming on when the tank is full, the service manager explains that the IC is at the most recent software level and they have ordered a replacement fuel pump. HD support was consulted and agrees that this should solve the problem. With respect to the starts then stalls issue, they believe the fuel pump will solve this as well. A week goes by... The bike is ready. My wife drops me off and leaves. I reluctantly pay the $141. The service writer tells me that after installing the fuel pump they re-ran the diagnostics and decided to replace the voltage regulator, under warranty, because it was the edge of it’s acceptable operating range. I ask if this and not the bulb might have been the charging system fault. I receive no definitive answer. At this point, I just want to leave. I walk out to my bike, thumb the starter, it starts right up and then dies. Problem one not fixed. I consider asking the service manager to observe that it’s not fixed but, how will I get home? And, I really just want to leave. On the ride home I observe that it is way down power. If I open the throttle, it makes intake noise like the throttle bodies are opening as they should, but there isn’t much power. Both symptoms could be related. Perhaps a bad sensor in the fuel injection circuit causing the FI to deliver an inappropriate mixture for the conditions. I get the bike home. On close inspection, I notice an increased resistance when turning the throttle. I check the diagnostics and find the throttle position sensor (TPS) is only reporting 53% at full throttle when it should be 100%. I remove the airbox cover, the airbox and the air cleaner and look into the throttle bodies. Sure enough they are only opening half way. Further, the large seal between the throttle bodies and the airbox base is not attached to the airbox base at all. It's crushed and twisted and is allowing non-filtered air to enter the throttle bodies. I remove the airbox base and observe that the throttle cables are grossly improperly routed and obviously binding. I reroute the throttle cables, re-install the throttle body to airbox base seal and reassemble the rest. The TPS diagnostics now report 100% when the twist grip is fully opened and normal power is restored. Two days later, after a half hour ride I stop for gas. After filling up, I thumb the starter button and it won’t start. Problem two not fixed. The IC reads 11.9V. Aagain, after a ride, I’ve stopped for five minutes and the bike has failed to restart with at dead battery. This service department has ignored logic, misdiagnosed the problems, not fixed the problems, in fact made them worse and charged me $141 to replace a T10 bulb that didn’t need to be replaced. Unbelievable. At this point, I suspect it is the “harness upgrade” logic or relay that is inhibiting proper operation of the charging system. I welcome your thoughts, guidance and commiseration. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Maybe you need to call H-D yourself and tell them exactly what you posted up here. Keeping a cool head is the way to go but I'd make sure I called them back and let them know what they screwed up on my bike and charge them the same amount. Stay with it! I'm sure someone here can help you out. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Wow. What a nightmare. Have you considered disconnecting the harness to see if this changes anything? It's simple and there is a nice HOw-To thread floating around in the archives somewhere. | ||
| Tbowdre |
what a nightmare I bet your stator is shot causing low output and low voltage reading on IC hence dead battery | ||
| Pwillikers |
I just tried to start my bike. Not surprisingly, the battery doesn't have enough power to turn over the engine. I checked it with a meter and it's 12.1V with no load. I un-upgraded my harness and jumped the battery. It started right up. The IC readout is now 14.1 V at idle, higher than it's been since installing the "harness upgrade". I shut it down and attached the battery tender. I'll charge it up for a while, ride it in an un-upgraded state, monitor the V and stay close to home. I also constructed a set of mini jumper cables, 12 ft of heavy wire and beefy alligator clips, that will permanently reside next to the tool kit. You all with the "harness upgrade" might be well advised to do the same. I'm relatively certain that the "harness upgrade" logic is sacrificing battery charge to keep the stator un-stressed so much so that the battery is never being sufficiently charged. Recall, my battery failed both times after a long ride and a five minute stop. Under these circumstances, the battery clearly should have been fully charged if the "upgrade" logic was sound. The "harness upgrade" is a slowly ticking bomb. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I'm relatively certain that the "harness upgrade" logic is sacrificing battery charge to keep the stator un-stressed so much so that the battery is never being sufficiently charged. Agreed. I think HD is sacrificing batteries rather than stators due to cost and labor. Then when the bikes are out of warranty, it's our problem. Sweethearts. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I put my bike on a tender overnight occasionally when I think about it, almost always I have a battery light on at the end of a ride the next day--esp when doing a bit of city riding. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
My dealer first replaced my battery, instead of checking the stator, which I asked them to do. After killing that battery in a few days of riding, they decided the stator and voltage regulator needed replacing. Quite frankly, I'll be glad when my bike is out of warranty this year. I can't imagine having the kinds of problems you've had. Never did they try to blame my aftermarket turn signals or HID headlight. Why are they calling it a strobe light? Since you have a voltmeter, i'd check the stator output on each leg with the bike running at 3k rpms. I believe someone posted it should be 45VAC at 3k. | ||
| J_copeland |
Sounds like your getting screwed by your dealer and HD. Maybe try another dealer that is Buell friendly !!! | ||
| Easttroy |
Make sure you bill the dealer for your "time" to diagnose the problem his tech caused to the throttle bodies, causing potential harm to your bike. Should amount to $141.  Personally, I think you need to call HD and discuss this issue. Get the dealer number and name of the tech and ask if they can verify that this tech is a certified Buell tech because you are concerned that the issues with your bike have been not been fixed, continue to be an issue and you have little trust in both the dealer and the tech. You also feel that it's not in your best interest to have the same dealer fix the problem that was suppose to be fixed already. If the person on the phone doesn't seem to want to see it your way, ask to talk to their manager and/or their managers manager. You want to know why you paid XXXX for your bike and are getting F'd over. You don't believe that this should be happening to you as you are a customer of HD and HD should take care of their customers. You feel that this hasn't been the case so far. I think this will get you further than going back to the dealer. (Message edited by easttroy on April 22, 2011) (Message edited by easttroy on April 22, 2011) | ||
| Usanigel |
It's so disgusting the incompetence of some so called techs. The charging system is so basic on this machine, same system (basically) as on any machine in the last 20 years. But that's a rant. Call Harley and tell them of the poor service, also call your visa/mastercard and contest the charge. | ||
| Usanigel |
The harness thing is a hack! The dealer you got stuck using has no clue how to correct the issue! Can't even tell an LED from a strobe! Call Harley and be firm, contest the payment too, hope you used a CC. | ||
| Zac4mac |
+ effing lots Easttroy. | ||
| Sparky |
I disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong but if a battery is basically not being sufficiently charged, that's not a battery problem unless it doesn't hold a charge. You must have an unresolved charging system problem. | ||
| Froggy |
Are you sure your harness is installed correctly, the relay is functioning correctly, and that your ECM has the correct programming to switch the leg on and off? It sounds like yours is stuck in the off position if you can't get 14v at idle when you first turn it on. | ||
| Ohsoslow |
froggy, why would someone that just left the dealer for warranty work have to check those things? how is one supposed to check their ecm for the proper programming? | ||
| Froggy |
I agree 100%, but if they botched so much on his bike to start with, then blamed his issues on a light bulb, I wouldn't put it past them to do the harness wrong. When the ECM is reflashed the computer will print out a sheet confirming you got the most current calibration. They can also plug in the computer and see which one is on there to confirm. | ||
| Ohsoslow |
good point, when the dealer updated my bike last they didnt give me a sheet  must be up to the dealer | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYEYGJfyBw&lc=7K_i v4njC--S3_A5mbQwDf83ep5MuHBdSqFNn2lIdzI&feature=in box Just undo it. After all I've read, I think that the whole stator thing is a heat issue. If there were extremely robust cooling provisions internally for the stator, by oil of course, there would be virtually no problems. Some have the problem, some don't. My 09 CR has right at 13k right now, ridden as a daily driver. Rarely get it really, really hot, most trips are 30-45 minutes at most. I did have the harness done, and had nothing but problems. Short hops with frequent starts would kill the battery after about 3-5 starts. Undid the harness. Problems stopped. Since the harness "upgrade" came from the company, they CAN't volunteer that you undo it. Ask them what they think, and you will probably get a cautious answer to the effect "Do it." If and when my stator fails, I'm going to have it rewound aftermarket, and insure that there is adequate flow around it when reinstalled. FOr now, if you do short hops, or anything other than consistent, long, low speed, high temperature riding, undo the harness as in the video and rock and roll. Rob | ||
| Dannybuell |
Nice vid Carbonbigfoot THX | ||
| Mtch |
i had the "upgrade" done a couple of months ago. due to my bike i use for work breaking down on me i have been commuting on my 2010CR. a week ago after a long ride home the check engine lamp came on while riding through city traffic, followed shortly after by the battery light. got home charged the battery, and took it out for another run and 10 minutes later only had 12.1 volts instead of the usual 14.1 volts.. bike is off to the dealer on wednesday. fingers crossed its an easy fix as parts seem to take forever to arrive in the UK. | ||
| Sprintst |
You need to contact the General Manager and ask for an appointment to discuss this. Explain everything, including the TPS issue. If that fails, ask to see the owner The big wigs don't want to deal with customers. When they have to, things will get done. We just went through some similar BS on a used Corvette we bought. 10 minutes with the General Manager changed everything. The undernose spoiler was replaced, the undernose repainted (they curbstered it) and our ongoing other problems were all fixed. Agree to change back to the stock bulb (even though it's worse for draw) just to help them feel confident you won't be back again for the same issue (Message edited by sprintst on April 24, 2011) (Message edited by sprintst on April 24, 2011) |
