| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
I've been searching and haven't come up with anything objective except for this thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/585175.html?1281248995 Cowboytutt links to a dyno chart the Barker site and it shows a several horsepower gain with the K&N compared to stock, when running a Barker exhaust. There are several other threads I found but none of them have any objective evidence--just personal opinions. I'm going to finally pull the trigger on an EB R ECM. Since EB R lists a different tune with stock or K&N filters, that leads me to believe that there is a difference in air flow between stock and K&N. A difference in air flow would suggest a difference in power. So, which way should I go? EB R ECM with K&N or stock? Dyno charts or other objective evidence would be much appreciated. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Well heck, I just checked the EB R site and they just list Barker-tuned ECMs for the 1125R or CR, with no differentiation by air filter. So I guess this is a moot question. | ||
| 1_mike |
Racing only - K&N Street/track days - stock paper K&N's don't do a good job of keeping out much but birds and bolders. I've tried over the years, but keep going back to OEM type filters. They haven't figured out how to keep the fine stuff from getting thru. One of their sayings is (or used to be), "the dirtier they get, the better they work". Think about that for a minute or two...! I like my cylinder walls and rings free from fine scratches. As far as more power...where ? It's fairly high in the rpm scale. Not a place where one normally drives down the freeway..! I've seen the charts from OEM paper to aftermarket foam, to aftermarket cloth (gauze, K&N). Overall highest power - K&N, then paper, then foam, in that order. BUT, how long do you want a good ring seal...? As far as playing in the canyons...you'll get more corner speed out of a riding class and a coupla track days. Mike (Message edited by 1_mike on April 21, 2011) | ||
| D_adams |
I tried a couple of dyno runs a few weeks ago and saw no real difference between the k&n vs stock. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Neither do a good job of filtering because the stock air box is so full of entry points, like the ill fitting breather tube on the bottom.  | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Oh, I've never owned a bike that had a big rubber band holding the filter on. Must be harley davidsons cost cutting department at work. | ||
| Syonyk |
I find it hard to believe the stock paper filter is that restrictive, given how gigantic it is... I've seen smaller filters on most cars. It'd be easy enough to throw a gauge in there and measure manifold pressure post-filter with a stock filter vs a K&N. I really don't think you'd see a huge difference. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Hi Flesh, the guys are probably right and paper is the safer bet. K&N's need oil to work and lots of times people let them run a little dry and they don't filter much at that point. They need to be cleaned and oiled regularly. Tim Barker was quite clear with me on the phone though that at least on the bike he had it made a big difference. I will say my bike just dyno'd at 141 HP standard with the Barker pipe, matching Erik Buell Racing ECM, K&N and Twin velocity stacks. Sure makes me smile! -Tutt | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I went back to paper after seeing a fine grit on my throttle plates with the K&N. I ride over a mile on a gravel road to and from the house every ride, so the dust is very noticeable when it has not rained. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Yeah, I've heard the comment "the dirtier they are, the better they work". The question is how well they filter when they're clean--pretty much any filter should block more particles the more clogged the filter gets. Cowboytutt, I thought K&Ns didn't need to be serviced very often--like 50K miles or something ridiculously long like that. However, I cleaned and oiled the K&N in my CBR600F2, which has 41K on it (and at most 30K on the K&N) and it made a noticeable improvement in throttle response and top end power. I put that filter in the bike at around 10K miles, although I don't remember if I'd ever serviced it before. Maybe, but probably not. Oil analysis should show whether or not there is any problem filtering the intake air--from what I've read, silicon in the oil sample can indicate filtration problems. I do oil analysises on most of my vehicles at each oil change, so if I put a K&N on the Buell, I should be able to tell if it negatively affects filtration. I'll probably just leave the stock filter in until I do my next oil change and then try a K&N for an OCI. I used to periodically dyno my bikes but haven't done that in forever. If I ever do get around to doing that again, I'll do a comparison of K&N to stock. | ||
| Kinder |
I have a K&N in both car and bike. Are they better than paper? I dunno.. But I can say it's easy to over oil them and get that red oil all up in your intake track and engine.  I'm prob gonna go back to paper for the bike. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Flesh, 50K really? To be honest, I don't know what the recommended is but my filters get checked with the oil change intervals. That for me is 6K. I'm usually pulling out plenty of dirt by then. The ram air system is great for inhaling bees, leaves, small birds etc. Kinder is right also, its easy to over-oil them the first time. Then you pretty well figure it out. -Tutt | ||
| Americanmadexb |
I've had my K&N on for about 5,000 miles. I just pulled it off for the first time today to clean it. The filter itself wasn't that dirty. I did have some debris in it. 4-5 smacks and a recharge kit later its good to go. I inspected the TB area and i didn't find any signs of dirt. I'd say they work great. Power wise i can't really comment on as i installed it pretty early in the bikes life. I sure as hell won't go 50k miles without cleaning it. It takes 5 min inspect it. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Erik Buell Racing raced and won championships with stock filter- enough said. | ||
| Fast1075 |
It amazes me how sheeple will blindly follow the crowd without doing any thinking. But I guess that is the power of advertising and "correction" on a dyno. How large are the open spaces in gause and window screen? How much "stuff" can go thu those relatively large spaces? All air filters are a balance between flow and effectiveness....chose one and compromise. All filters become more effective as they fill...eventually, they become 100% effective if they don't physically fail first. If anyone finds that their gause filter seems to be very very effective, I submit that the air there is very very clean to begin with. I have personally see motocross engines go from mechanical perfection to completely worn out in three motos on a dusty Florida Sunday using a properly serviced and sealed gause filter. When I was a pup, I worked as a "gofer" at a large trucking company. One of my duties was pulling oil samples for analysis..it is a fact that the levels of silicates in the oil indicate the quality of the filtration system... I currently work in the air conditioning field..the problem there is reversed...people use filters that are too restrictive in an attempt to improve air quality...dirt does not wear an a/c system out directly..it plugs it up and kills it slowly...so for those of you that have one of those "permanent" or "super pollen guard" pleated filters in your a/c at home...Myself or someone like me will be giving you the bad news about the untimely death of your a/c unit because of choked air flow. And yes, I am a trained air filtration professional...it does not matter what the air is being used for...it's up to you how clean you decide it needs to be. | ||
| Geforce |
I can't believe this is a point of argument here. Bottom line for many folks who want to use K&N or filters or that type is the lifespan of the filter. If you want to use the stock filter then go for it. As many have said the gauze type filters aren't the greatest at filtration. I've understood this principle for the last 15 years running K&N in all my vehicles. Over 2/3rds of my vehicles are equipped with large turbochargers and methanol or alcohol systems. Except for the bike. Still run a K&N in all my vehicles. | ||
| Dennis_c |
I have 3 K@N they come pre oiled and they all had holes in them that I could see daylight through them that don't seem to good to me. | ||
| Gasteward |
Fleshrocket?! I checked the Erik Buell Racing site and did not find a different ECM for K&N Vs. stock, only R Vs. CR. Where are you finding this?} | ||
| Rt_performance |
I am not going to join in a argument. But my 1125r was the Barker pipe Erik Buell Racing dynoed. They took it off and put it in there 08 mule with a stock air filter and made the map. Took it off and back on my bike with kn and mine made more hp. I lived on dirt roads all my life never had a issue with Dirt in my engines | ||
| 46champ |
50,000 to 100,000 miles that is what it said on an old K&N filter box I had laying around this was for a filter for an S&S air cleaner. They do have a disclaimer for operating in dirty conditions. I'm really surprised. |
