| Author | Message | ||
     Jdugger |
It's all rider, anyway. Bench racing only gives results for guys that can't ride. | ||
| Ratsmc |
That's what every racer says. However, the best rider in the world isn't going to win with a dog of a bike. | ||
| Jdugger |
Some additional data on Streets, as I think Court's numbers come from that very fun-to-watch Motor Trend video, but don't tell the whole story. For the car guys, a 1:20.25 seems possible: http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs_- _streets_of_willow.html I believe Higbee's numbers are a *class* track record, not an outright track record. There's no doubt that Higbee is wicked fast on that bike. Looks like Toye may hold the outright class record at Streets now with a 1:13: http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=4 0901 Since he seems to win on a variety of machinery, I honestly think Toye would do very well on a Buell, just as Shawn would do wonderfully on the BMW or Honda. All of those bikes are fantastic machines, and with great riders to extract the most out of them amazing things happen. (Message edited by jdugger on February 22, 2011) | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
jdugger- well said...couldnt agree more, i know having a bike like that would take ALOT of getting used to....remember that Geoff May is quoted as saying "the 1190rr is the FASTEST motorcycle i have EVER RIDDEN!" now consider that the 1190rs might be only 10-15lbs. heavier than the RR with 10 horsepower less..give or take a few (we will see very soon!) i have no doubt about the 1190rs....because in full race trim it'll be makig 185rwhp+ !!! and still weighing in at 380lbs. wet (with 20lbs ballast kit.) also with the added benefits of handling with buells technology, fuel in frame, ztl, etc... i think EVERYONE will be VERY shocked how well it does.. remember the 1125rr placed top 10 and even led a race before in superbike and it is ALOT heavier, aerodynamicly challenged, and slower due to the above....factor those out and you have yourself a NASTY WORLD EATER! LONG LIVE CORN....or would it be cheese?? LOL...rice and pasta dont have anything anymore lol.... i've had a bit of "buellaid" today...and im still REALLY excited!! Jake | ||
| Jdugger |
> However, the best rider in the world isn't going to win with a dog of a bike. At all but the highest levels of racing, rider is still, by far, the most important ingredient. And, by that I mean, a good rider on a total dog will always win until you get up to a rather high level of rider competency consistently across the field, when the machine starts to make a real difference. I'd be shocked if more than a tiny handful of the riders on this forum could beat top CMRA (club level) SV-650 racers on their 1125r. (Message edited by jdugger on February 22, 2011) | ||
| Ezblast |
I like the bike, All the material is top notch, and the Erik Buell Racing design a thing of beauty in CF. A gasket, ignition, and exhaust system, with two out of three is swapped in preparing for track days, a thinner gasket, and your flying. EZ | ||
| Court |
>>>jdugger- well said...couldnt agree more I agree as well. I simply pulled the information off the discussion we'd recently had. I do agree that it comes down to the rider. I, in the days I was riding a great deal, had the opportunity to "teach school" to a pair of youngsters at The Streets of Willow one day . . I have photos of that event and they were suitably embarrassed. The fun part was that so many folks had spouted off about the Ducati being unbeatable. To see Shawn post these numbers took the wind out of lots of sails. That being said, I am always amazed as Shawn's ability, many times in the same day, to get off a Buell, on a Ducati or another bike, and always perform impressively. Talent, by and large, trumps HP. I think the absence of HP numbers MAY have to do with federal tomfoolery. . . but I don't know. Just as Buell has A dyno . . . .HD has MANY dynos and yet I don't think they are posting HP figures either. I suspect it won't be long till we see some extensive tests in the hands of journalists that will being yielding objective information. For now we'll just have to go with "the bike is pure sex on wheel, drop dead gorgeous" . . . that's a far cry from the Harley-leashed 1125R introduction comments. The Leash Came Loose . . . | ||
| Ratsmc |
Jdugger, I don't disagree with that but I thought we were talking about WSBK and there, I don't think you can make up a huge amount of ground with talent alone. Spies certainly showed what talent can do as he was clearly on a lesser bike than Haga but at the same time, the Yamaha wasn't a complete dog. I also think we can agree that Spies was a whole level of talent above the rest of the field. So, I don't discount the rider but in WSBK, the right bike is critical as Ducati's dominance there over the years has demonstrated. | ||
| Jdugger |
> That being said, I am always amazed as Shawn's ability, many times in the same day, > to get off a Buell, on a Ducati or another bike, and always perform impressively. Exactly. The Buell is fast because Shawn is riding it, and overall it's a great motorcycle. Around here, it's Ty Howard with the track record at every single track we race at. He's on a KTM, but that's not what's important -- he set and owned track records plenty of times before he was on the KTM. He would have set those records on whatever bike he was given by the manufacturer. It's Ty, not the KTM, that wins by 30 seconds. | ||
| Davegess |
Let's go AMA racing before we go WSBK shall we? I don't doubt that Erik would love to be in WSBK and probably has a plan to get there BUT you gotta start somewhere. From a kick in the teeth to this bike in what, 18 months, is simply nuts. | ||
| T_man |
If the 1190RS is anywhere close to Ducati's 1198R E-B-R's achievement is a resounding success. At a discount. | ||
| Dannybuell |
There was a lifelong racer 60+ at PIR who would nip at the heels of 600cc bikes with his gp250. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Is it the bike or the rider? We won't know this season, because we will have one hell of a rider on one hell of a bike for most of the season. Poor us.  | ||
| Court |
>>>From a kick in the teeth to this bike in what, 18 months, is simply nuts. That, unbeknownst to many, is the most amazing part of this entire thing. Product development cycles can run 3 years . . I think many folks are ascribing many more "Buell before the Harley-Davidson breakup" parts and pieces here. Not entirely so. There is a LOT of work that's taken place to bring this bike to market at this time. It is going to be an amazing year in many ways. . . . | ||
| Blake |
>>> I'd be shocked if more than a tiny handful of the riders on this forum could beat top CMRA (club level) SV-650 racers on their 1125r. Word! Might want to clarify that the top CMRA SV650 racers are also pretty much contenders for national titles as well. Eric Fault won one not too long ago, yes? Danny, A GP250 machine is no slouch. On a technical track, it will have a significant advantage over a supersport spec 600cc machine. I've seen GP125 beat SV650's and 600cc supersport spec racers. What JD said.  Good tires help more than ten HP. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Good tires help more than ten HP. Amen. I pulled the rear out from under me in this weekend's CMRA Superbike A race in Houston. I was in 4th gear, nearly full throttle, knee down in the carousel about to pass a literbike that was smoking me down the straights. The mistake cost me a race and a broken collar bone. And, based on times, proabbyl a 3rd place in the Heavy Weight Twins race I skipped for a trip to the ER instead. Should have been running a soft. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Blake "A GP250 machine is no slouch. On a technical track, it will have a significant advantage over a supersport spec 600cc machine. I've seen GP125 beat SV650's and 600cc supersport spec racers." Wow I didn't know that a 125 v.s. 650 twin. Rider is the big part of that too isn't it? | ||
| Gofast |
Jdugger - Was this you? Pics from Houston CMRA event. Helicopter ride to ER  | ||
| Drawkward |
GoFast: I think that was a guy from HPC, Steven. He fractured his C3. Recovering in the hospital now. JD: Sorry to hear about your wreck. When will you be back out there? | ||
| Curve_carver |
 It is pure sex  | ||
| Jdugger |
GoFast -- that wasn't me. I walked myself in to the pits and refused the ambulance ride. Went in with a friend. I'm in a figure-8 brace and comfortable, actually at a customer right now taking a little afternoon break before going back at it! I'll have surgery to fix it Thursday, and be in the office on Monday with no issues. It will be 8 weeks or so before I ride again. Thats OK. (Message edited by jdugger on February 22, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Every time I see that picture it gets prettier. Can't wait to see Geoff May on it dragging an elbow as he takes the inside line past the other literbikes... | ||
| Snackbar64 |
This bike is nearly as sexy as the MV Agusta. I never thought I would see the day when a Buell would cost more than an MV F4, but I'm just glad he's building bikes again and on his terms. When I look at the price I become somewhat disappointed, but then I remember that Porsche had to build the 911 before we could have a cayman or Boxster with similar performance and tech at a lower price. I think this Buell will be along the same lines. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
That airbox and tail section have no equal. So sweet. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
...and the rest of the bike rocks too. Don't get me wrong! | ||
| Blake |
>>> So the rs isn't as strong as the 1125rr with a pipe and an ecm? Whoooo this doesn't make sense for any consumer to buy? Buy a 40,000 bike that can't compete hp wise against a 1000cc bike? Please explain how a 170 RWHP (the published figure for a new Erik Buell Racing 1125RR) street bike "can't compete HP wise against a 1000cc bike?" You are talking street bikes, yes? You're not going to try to compare the street version of the 1190RS to a race-prepped IL4 are you? What about the Ducati 1098R-F09 and the virtually guaranteed to explode in a race MV August F4?   And those weren't decked out in carbon and didn't approach the low weight of the 1190RS. >>> I don't think you read the article right? It is something close to the 1125rr when a race muffler and ecm is applied. Actually he specifically said it would be close the the 1125RR that Geoff May raced last year, you know, the one where he finished respectably in many races and even led in one race. Darn those stubborn facts! >>> I'm shocked at what is being built. So are most folks. They are astounded at the offering for a mere $40K. But most folks understand that only a complete moron with his head sharing space with like-sized pollups would expect to pay $15K for a first-run, limited edition, covered in carbon fiber, shod with top of the line Ohlins, ultra-lightweight magnesium wheels, billet everything American Superbike. >>> I'm not being negative folks. Yes, actually you are, and you are doing so from a willfully ignorant basis, which implies malicious intent, which means that you really have no business whatsoever on this forum. Either that or you really are challenged by simple facts and logic. >>> Im being realistic. No, you're not. You're being moronic. >>> So you would have to buy a (sic) exhaust and ecm which would throw this bike over 48,000. Huh?  Remove the auxiliary EPA noise compliant muffler. Cost is $8K for an ECM? Huh? >>> the 1190rr is 44,000. Then $40K for an Erik Buell Racing 1190RS seems quite reasonable. >>> This is showing me that a ebr bike will never be made to ama specs and streetable like other manufactures simply because of the engine design. Speaky de English? Streetable, as in ridable on the street? "AMA specs and streetable", you mean have racing machine performance and be street legal? No bike does. >>> Listen to what your saying. Yes it's a turn key streetable racebike but there are so many other bikes you can buy for 15k that do the same Not so much. Besides the incredible appeal of a limited edition street ready American Superbike, which is apparently lost on you, please see the aforementioned magnesium wheels, ZTL-2.8 ducted front brake system, billet everything, Ohlin suspenders, racing electrics, astounding light weight. If what you are arguing is that a bargain hunter looking for a literbike repli-racer is unlikely to consider the Erik Buell Racing 1190RS, well D'UH!. Only a complete moron, troll, or someone out to fling poo at Erik Buell Racing would pretend that scenario is a valid one. Which are you? I'm leaning towards troll. >>> It doesnt make any sense to buy a rs especially when it can't compete as the 1125rr couldn't. "It can't compete? BWAHAHAHAHA! First, the 1190RS is a street bike. In race form, as an 1190RR or whatever Erik decides to call it, it darn sure will compete. LOL! The 1125RR couldn't compete? A top five in its second outing is not competitive? Matt Mladin sees it differently. Beating a factory Suzuki and a factory Honda piloted by a former WSBK champion is not competing? Leading at Atlanta is not competing? Suggest you educate yourself on some facts. >>> Standings dont lie. Geoff is a great rider and I know if the bike was capable he would shine. Count on it. The Erik Buell Racing 1190RR is capable. >>> You keep telling yourself everything will be okay. You keep telling yourself that everything will be poo. We'll see who's right. Care to put a cash wager on whether Geoff podiums in the bike's first year? >>> It is all clear now. the 1190 rs is streetable with its lower compression higher cc displacement. But yet it will fall short of the 1125rr hp rating and thats decked out? Not so much. You no read good. >>> the 1125rr is rated what 170rwhp. So say the 1190rs is 150 stock and 165 with the ebr addons. So say you stop making stuff up. How about we say it is 160 RWHP stock and 170 with ECM and pipe. >>> Any 1000cc jap bike walk circles around it. What Japanese literbike bike is putting down 160 RWHP in stock form or 170 RWHP with just ECM and pipe? "Walk circles around it"? Explain Geoff May leading in Atlanta on the heavier, less powerful, with greater drag 1125RR. No bike was walking circles around it. Geoff rode the Jordan Suzuki GSXR1000 superbike in 2009, yet he states that the Buell 1190RR is the fastest bike he's ever ridden. Does that mean it would walk circles around them? Darn facts! That said, peak HP probably rates around 4th or 5th in order of importance for a top level superbike racing machine. Powerband, handling, braking, traction, and drive off of the turns can rate ahead of ten HP in peak power. >>> Please good luck to the racer slash sucker that'll buy that bike. Congratulations, you've earned yourself a time-out for that bit of mean-spirited miserableness. Be productive and use the time to educate yourself on the real world of superbike racing and the market for exotic American muscle machines. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
+10000 blake! Jake | ||
| D_adams |
Blake, well stated. Thank you. | ||
| Ohsoslow |
"I'm in a figure-8 brace and comfortable, actually at a customer right now taking a little afternoon break before going back at it! I'll have surgery to fix it Thursday, and be in the office on Monday with no issues." JD i have broke both of my collar bones one i had surgery on and the other i didnt, both dirt bike accidents. its not entirely a walk in the part after surgery i was in a sling for a week and had very little movement of my arm. | ||
| Jdugger |
> its not entirely a walk in the part after surgery i was in a sling for a week and had very little movement of my arm. I hear you bud. Doc told me the same thing. I also know a week is a whole ton better than 8 weeks, which is what they recommend if I don't get the fix. |
