| Author | Message | ||
     Jeepinbueller |
I feel like this bitching and moaning is getting redundant but where else am I supposed to go? MoCo won't listen, Erik Buell Racing is free of responsibility (thank God), and all I have is you guys. Too bad we can't seem to get anything done. Bike state: '09 CR, replaced stator and battery about 3k miles ago (9.7k miles on bike), harness installed since 2k miles or so, Erik Buell Racing ECM, DDM 55W 6000K HIDs in both headlights. Since the stator/battery replacement, I cruise at 4.5k RPM and no lower. I wring it out frequently. Everything's been fine since the replacement (even though the battery light would always come on during high beam use), except for today and yesterday. Both days the bike was on a charger all night (charger indicated full charge in AM). Only put about 100 miles on her since yesterday, both days I went to work in the AM, came home and went back to work for lunch, went to the gym after work, and then went for a 40 mile ride after the gym both days (pegging up to 10k RPM frequently on the rides). Both days have been pretty intense sun-wise so I keep the high beam on for visibility. Both days my voltage has dropped to 12.3 VDC and stayed there -- never greater than that other than while warming up. Regardless of how bush league it is, I've gotten used to the battery light being on when using the high beam. Until yesterday. My voltage has dropped to 11.5 at a stop light (only three or so minutes). I thought the harness was supposed to not let the voltage drop below 12 VDC? Came home, let the bike idle for three minutes and the voltage was back down to 11.5. This is a problem ... if I'm supposed to used this bike as a DD, I need it to start, yes, sometimes 5-7 times a day. If it's not getting enough voltage to charge the battery for its next start while I'm riding, eventually there's going to be a deficit and I'm going to be stranded. Double checked the 11.5 VDC on the FLUKE at the battery terminals. Why, oh why, can't the bike maintain homeostasis when using the basic electronics that came on it?? Dammit. I mean, is the only real solution to swap the stator and cover to an '08 revision ... which wouldn't even be covered under warranty? EVEN IF it fails again, MoCo says it has to be an '09 stator/cover for replacement. | ||
| Dannybuell |
welcome to the world of 09-10 owners. there have been many responses but none may be considered conclusive. I am just hoping the answer comes before I need to decide. time will tell. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
The best bet is to rewind the stator for a lower output like the 08's and remove the harness. Using a 08 stator, rotor, cover, whatever else is a huge hassle to me. My bike has left me stranded all ready. I do not trust it if I'm going to ride somewhere far away and need to shut it down. I'm not concerned about the warranty, mostly because I only have 1 year left anyway. If they can't see you with 1 HID on, then two isn't going to make a difference,IMHO. | ||
| Aj2010 |
Guys I know the feeling. Riding our bikes is supposed to be relaxing or intense (in a good way). It's not supposed to stress us out when we are stuck in traffic with visions of varnish turning black, cracking and falling off of our stator windings. I am going the 08 stator and rotor way and replacing the regulator with a linear switching unit for good measure. I've just had enough of the anger/panic/nail biting on my trip to Vancouver last summer. Yes something else could go wrong, but I've had it with staring at the temp/voltage screen. I'll post up with pics once I get the reverse air flow mods done. I don't want to take everything apart at once (I think this was one of my resolutions, one thing at a time not everything all at once LOL) | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
If your that dedicated to running with the high beam on why not just swap to the 08 stator? Its really not that expensive. Considering that most of the problem bikes were firesale and were literally a steal, whats a few hundred more dollars. I understand that on principle it should be on HD but the reality is thats not going to happen. Being pissed about it for X amount of time gets you what exactly? Ive seen several people say that they are selling their 1125 at a loss because they cant take it anymore. Why?!!! There is a known fix! People have no problem swapping on exhaust, ecms, levers, pegs, HIDs and such but wont spend money to fix a charging system because "its free under warantee". If its taking the fun out of your machine that free doesnt look as good. | ||
| Anonymous |
You guys need to get these parts back to H-D. They have almost no examples of failed replacement stators that ran their whole life with the harness. The actual percentage failure of an '09/'10 stator that has run all it's life with the harness upgrade is like .03%. Most that have been returned are still good, so it was misdiagnosis. And almost every one they have gotten back that is failed shows signs of physical damage. It appears sometimes the dealer doing the swap drops the one washer into the cover and simply reassembles. The washer then gets picked up and driven into the stator by the rotor. Just sharing what I have seen in data, and in pictures. They do not have enough failures to diagnose what it is, and the actual failure rate is really really low from what they have seen.. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Anonymous,you try and get a dealer to actually diagnose the stator. I asked them to test mine after my bike wouldn't turn over and all they did was replace the battery. Doing my own test using a voltmeter, I got 45v, 45v, 20v at 5,000 rpms, so it's not working right. I do not doubt for a second that dealers are replacing stators for no reason. They would rather replace the whole charging system, than read the service manual and track down the problem. I call that shotgun service. | ||
| Gemini |
i have said this same thing in a few topics, IF your ebr ecm is not setup for the stator control relay, you are only running 2 legs of charging ALL THE TIME. also, the ebr ecm uses a more aggressive cooling fan operation. this uses more power. pull your seat off and put your hand on the charging isolation relay. turn the key and ignition on. cycle the run/kill switch a few times. if you can not feel the relay click/cycle, your ecm is not allowing the third leg to charge. the only issue i am having with my charging system since having the stator replaced, the wiring harness installed and having my ebr ecm tweaked to similar to stock for fans and charging is HIGH voltage. 2 times in 450 miles, i have had my cluster go black with 17.0 volts or so on the charging system. i am thinking regulator but will do more testing before deciding. a ground wire from the chassis to the regulator WILL NOT FIX ANY CHARGING ISSUES. look at the wiring diagram for the charging system and you will understand that. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Gemini - I agree I tried the ground wire and as hopeful as I was, it does nothing. Could you post a picture of the charging system relay location? THX | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
If my stator is indeed starting to deteriorate again, which only time will tell, I will insist on going to the '08 rotor/stator/cover. I'm just not going to do it on a very early whim that something's wrong. Time will tell ...
You can be sure that if I get the death spiral down to 8.6 VDC again, H-D will have an example. I really hope it was just a fluke, but my gut tells me that things are going to slowly, slowly, deteriorate from here. I hope I'm wrong!
That's not their prerogative anymore. It's our job to make things happen, and if you're professional and knowledgeable enough when going to the dealer, you can get things to happen.
Are you sure about this? The charging isolation relay is the relay that's included in the harness upgrade, correct? If so, mine doesn't change state when the key is on and I'm cycling my kill switch. The only relay the change state is the starter relay I believe. Thoughts? | ||
| Gemini |
jeep, positive about the isolation relay. yes, the relay i speak of is the isolation the relay that is installed as part of the piggy back relay. the starter relay should not be doing anything unless you are starting the bike. you may be feeling and ignition relay. trust me, if you have your hand on the isolation relay and your ecm is programmed for function of the relay and you cycle the kill switch, you will have no doubt in your mind that is cycling. it is very pronounced "click" or "clack" sound. in fact, once you know how it sounds, you can hear it with the seat on as you cycle the kill switch. the isolation relay, when de-energized, provides an open circuit for the third leg of the charging system. if when you cycle the kill switch on and off with the key turned on, the relay does not change state, your ecm is NOT programmed for the isolation relay control. you can take this info to the bank. as for pics, couldn't get the pic from my phone to load, pic was too big. so here's what i got, here is the pdf for the charging system tsb. page 3 shows the location of the installed relay. as seated, it's pretty much below your right butt cheek. on page 6 shows the wiring diagram for the relay for those who are interested | ||
| Bueller4ever |
I do get an obvious click from that relay when cycling the kill switch. If you don't get a click, then the relay maybe bad, instead of your ecm not being programmed. (Message edited by Bueller4ever on November 25, 2010) | ||
| Gemini |
agreed, but not very likely. been working on cars with relays foe over 10 years. never seen a relay with a bad coil. a few with high resistance in the contacts but it would still click. the relay they picked out is pretty stout. | ||
| 1125cr |
If you can not feel it click, check it with a test light and a DMM. I could not feel mine so I put a test light on it to see if I was getting power to the relay with the ignition key and then I hooked it back up and checked the continuity through the relay with the key on. | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
Wow, great info guys. Thank you. My charging relay definitely does not change state when cycling the kill switch on and off. I was thinking ignition relay but typed starter relay ... My bad, haha. But the ignition relay is definitely the only thing that changes state when cycling the kill switch with the ignition on. I will double check with the FLUKE when I get home. Very interesting. If the relay is good I will change my ECM back to stock to ensure the Erik Buell Racing ECM is the problem ... I want to send it back to get the Barker-specific tune anyway. Thanks again guys! If that's all the problem is I'll be a happy camper. | ||
| Blk09r |
Guys, just to be clear, the relay is energized when the ECM completes the circuit on the ground side of the relay. 12v is always present at the relay when the ignition is on. If the ECM is not controling the relay properly the ground side of the relay will be open. | ||
| Stimbrell |
Checked mine today and relay is operating with my EB-R ecm, thanks for the info. Also it was near freezing when I went out today and I got the "CT LOW" message for a few seconds, did not think that happened with the EB-R ecm. |
