| Author | Message | ||
     Boogiman1981 |
and by test the stuffing out if it i think he means let it sit and idle. hi revs they are usually fine from what i've been reading here. mines an 08 but still will get loooooooow voltages when idling in traffic | ||
| Daniii |
Interestingly, watching my voltage like a hawk, the lowest voltage at idle in traffic I have seen is 13.6, and that was with a very hot engine when it was near 100F out, in Dallas freeway traffic. I honestly think if one sees anything below 13V at idle, there is a stator issue. On the other hand, if you see 16.1V like I did, shut off the engine and restart. Might take a few times to get normal voltages. Then order a new voltage regulator, and buy a new headlight (or 2), cause yours just blew. | ||
| Ratsmc |
I am wondering if a topic just for listing what conditions the voltage drop occurs would be helpful. Right now, the various syptoms are listed in a ton of different topics and in different formats. Seems like it might be useful in helping diagnose problems as well helping people to know when their issue is outside of normal. Perhaps sort of like: Harness upgrade: y/n Alternately, I could set up a survey at mototheory.com. | ||
| Red93stang |
This thread is depressing the hell out of me! I have a trip planned for the following weekend and it doesn't look like it's going to happen. I guess I can always hope for next years Bikes Blues and Barb-b-que! | ||
| Ratsmc |
If it helps any, I made it out to Laguna Seca and back (1600 miles) with no problems. As long as your trip isn't in stop and go traffic, you really should be fine. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
But I haven't found out what is wrong yet. Battery light, followed by a CEL and then a message in the cluster. All in that order. Red, that sounds like the stator is going out to me. It happens very fast and without much warning. When it happened to me (post-harness), I bypassed the harness for the long ride to the dealer hoping the harness had a short or something. It was better (ie it didn't discharge to the mid-10 volts and kill the battery,) but it was far from right...still had the battery light and CEL. I would be very wary of the dealer telling you the charging system is okay now. If anything the harness seems to kill the stator faster than if it was left alone to burn up. } | ||
| Red93stang |
Thanks for the info Fresno. Looking at the wiring diagram their is no way in hell the harness is going to fix a none charging stator! HD idiots! If they haven't looked at it yet then why don't they just tell me that? | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Just a bit more data on mine that I believe to have the stator issue now at 3,112 miles. Mine seemed fine before the harness upgrade at around 2K miles, and fine afterwards. But in a rare 4 mile trip from office to home, poof. Before and after the upgrade, it would charge about 13.x all time, even idling. Matter of fact, mine acted so much the same after the upgrade, I couldn't have told you the difference other than the new wires under the seat. Bragging at 3,108 miles that my bike has been rock solid. At 3,112 it was dead as doornail, thankfully in my driveway. Batter light, CEL, system voltage on the display. I had to put on the charger just to restart it. All my bikes live on a tender. Mike | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Daniii, sounds like your wiring harness "fix" isn't working. Try unplugging the relay and plugging it back in. My bike drops to 12.9 at idle if it's hot, been doing that for 1,000's of miles after the fix. Always runs at 14.1 above 4,000 rpms. | ||
| Milt |
The purpose of the wiring harness, as I understand it, is to reduce heat generated by the stator, because heat causes the stator to fry. It is not intended to fix a non-charging stator. Of course, I've been wrong before... | ||
| Bartimus |
Well, I am finally able to join the ranks of those with the failed stator. To start with, my clutch started weeping about a month ago, I had 5200 miles on the CR. I brought it in, and they did the repairs, and did the wire harness "upgrade" at the same time. In the process, they dinged the cover while bleeding the clutch, so they ordered a new cover. I was bringing the bike back in to have the cover replaced, it now has 5850 miles on it, and the engine light came on, battery light came on, and voltage dropped to 10.8 by the time I got to the Stealership. They called me today and told me, they replaced the dinged cover, and my stator is fried. they said they will replace the stator and voltage regulator... I had hoped I would be one of the lucky ones.  So, has anyone that got a NEW stator, New regulator, and has the harness, had any more failures?? | ||
| Mac_inger |
I got all new last week. No failure but charging issues. Got battery light two days after install. 4-5k+ all the time but hot an in traffic. | ||
| Milt |
When they replace the stator, make sure they replace the crush washers on the oil drains. Unless, of course, you like the characteristic Harley oil droppings on your garage floor. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
When they replace the stator, make sure they replace the crush washers on the oil drains. Why would they change the oil? Would it not be a top off? Dealer said not much oil loss during the procedure...not sure how accurate that is.. | ||
| Milt |
I guess I need to review the procedure in the manual. I thought it said to drain the oil. Most of my reading is done on the train after work, so I might have gotten it all wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Whatever the recommended procedure is, I know my bike was clean as a whistle before they changed out the stator, and that there were drippings the morning after I picked it up. It could just be a coincidence. | ||
| Aseecobra |
Maybe there is a business opportunity for someone to develop an external oil jet kit to retrofit to the flywheel cover and spray oil on the coil. | ||
| Parrick |
Milleniumx1 -Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 05:53 pm: Before and after the upgrade, it would charge about 13.x all time, even idling. Matter of fact, mine acted so much the same after the upgrade, I couldn't have told you the difference other than the new wires under the seat. That certainly sounds like an improperly installed harness. It's either not connected at the right location on the ECU connector or not getting power correctly from the solenoid harness tap. OR...(most likely scenario)...the ECU flash programming was not updated like it was supposed to be when the harness was installed. | ||
| Chameleon |
I've got a 2008 1125R with almost 60,000 miles (<200 miles to go). I had some charging issues early on which were resolved by replacing this instrument cluster. Apparently there was a parasitic draw. Recently, on a 3,876.1 mile trip to Southern California, I noticed some charging issues. The worst was an overcharging situation where my voltage got up around 18V before I was able to get it under control. Didn't have any ill effects. No burned out headlights (I run an HID kit from DDMtuning.com), no fire, and seemingly no damage. I did observe that the problem appears to be heat-related (as others have also concluded). Ambient temperatures where I live are generally mild and in the 50-70F range most of the time which is probably why I haven't had issues until now. I haven't had the problem reoccur since leaving Southern California. The likely reason for the 2009 and newer bikes exhibiting the problem sooner than the 2008 bikes is that the 2008 stator is weaker and therefore probably produces less heat preventing the voltage regulator from overheating. Apparently the issues I've experienced thus far were not enough to permanently damage the voltage regulator. However, I do feel that it will become a problem, so I am also becoming keenly interested in this topic. I will probably upgrade to the MOSFET setup, possibly relocated with a cooling fan. Seems like the best solution to me. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Good plans Paul. I agree with what you say about ambient - cool here too and little issues charging-wise. Might look at heat saturation of the subframe/heatsink area. Possibly isolate the heatsink from the subframe and duct or fan cooling air over the R/R. Issues like this will be fixed at this level. Z | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Parrick, I have wondered that ... Subharness installed properly? Reason being that the bike was the exact same before and after the install. The voltage varied by .x only, just like it did before anything new was on it. How would one have the servicing dealer verify proper installation of the subharness and the proper operation afterwards? I know I've never heard that relay click - Should I? How would ask the dealer to check the installation? Mike (Message edited by milleniumx1 on September 24, 2010) | ||
| Daniii |
From what I understand about the "fix", and assuming a working voltage regulator and stator, I'm thinking the voltage readout on the dash should be the same before and after. The VR will just be dumping less current after the fix. I honestly believe that anyone seeing less than about 13.6V at idle has a partially fried stator. | ||
| Mac_inger |
I got 12.smothething at idle on a brand new stator/regulator. Literally brand new. | ||
| Parrick |
Milleniumx1, Someone posted the parameters of the harness operation programming on here not too long ago. I forget all the specifics but as I recall one of the parameters was, "Hot engine at idle = stator leg disabled". That coincides with what I saw when I still had the harness connected. After riding for a while with the engine up to operating temp I would see the voltage dropping down around 12.5 and below at long red lights. This was with a new stator that had about 200 miles on it prior to the harness install and after I had verified that the install was done correctly. So if it were ME and I wanted to verify the harness operation without getting into more involved things like splicing into the harness wiring I would do this: 1) Start with a cold bike that did NOT spend the evening on a battery tender. 2) Pull the seat and make sure the harness relay is in a position that I can get to it to unplug it when I want to. Then put the seat back on. 3) Put the console into Diagnostic Mode and flip it over to the voltage display. 4) Start the bike and let it idle (cold engine) note the voltage on the display. I would expect to see something between 13.5 and 14 volts at this point, assuming the battery is in decent shape. A properly connected harness should be running all three legs of the stator under these conditions until the engine heats up. 5) Go ride for an hour or so to get the engine hot and let the charging system balance out. 6) Park it and let it idle. If it is still in Diagnostic Mode check the system voltage. If it isn't, shut down, get it into Diagnostic Mode and restart. We want to see the Diagnostic Mode voltage conditions with a hot engine idling. The regular mode voltage display has a time lag (averaging) that won't show real time info. If the harness is working the relay should have one leg of the stator cut out and you should see a gradually diminishing system voltage. If it looks about the same as what you saw in step 4 (or increasing) I would say the harness is not doing it's job and all 3 stator legs are connected. 7) Here is the tricky part. DO NOT DO THIS IF IT MAKES YOU UNCOMFORTABLE. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK! You already have an idea if the harness is operating properly. However, if you want to see what the system voltage looks like with the 3rd stator leg definitely cut out you can do it manually by pulling the relay. Unless the harness was just laid under the seat and completely not connected to anything, pulling the relay will disconnect the 3rd leg. I wouldn't *suggest* doing it with the engine running. Shut down, pull seat, pull harness relay, get into Diagnostic Mode, start engine (hot engine at idle), watch voltage. This would be the check. If the voltage behaves differently than what you saw in step 6 then I would definitely say that the harness is not doing it's job. Again, all of the above is merely my opinion based on my own experience with the harness. There are other ways to achieve the same goal but you would need other equipment and have to tap into wires, etc. Or you could take it to the dealer and tell them that you think they might have messed up based on some stuff you read on a forum...that should go over like poo in the punch bowl.  -Patrick | ||
| Red93stang |
Millenium, I talked with Cycle Connection this morning and they confirmed it's a stator failure. I filed a complaint this morning the NHSTA by the suggestion of a friend. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/Complaint.cfm | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Red93, I got the word while I was in Orlando that my stator was toast. Awaiting the part and R/R, not yet sure if anything else went south. Probably hard to tell without a functioning stator. I'll claim ignorance on the NHSTA thing - What's the purpose, or the anticipated result. Haven't seen it before, hence the question. Mike | ||
| Chameleon |
Mine is getting worse. I'm now not sure if it'll make it through the Winter. Bike went overvoltage when idling while I was getting my helmet and gloves on yesterday when leaving work. I shut it off and turned it back on and it was OK. I would also file a complaint with NHSTA, but I don't really perceive this as a safety issue and I doubt they will either. | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
I would think that being stranded somewhere would be a safety issue. I also plan on filing a complaint. | ||
| Froggy |
The NHTSA dosen't see it that way. They only handle things that actually affect safety, say transmissions locking up in 5th gear and causing a skid, or brake lines that rub against the tire and get damaged. Feel free to submit a complaint with them though, but I personally doubt much will come of it. | ||
| Red93stang |
If no complaints are filed we will never know. I don't know if anything will be done but I work in the automotive industry and that's what people do to us all the time. They recall some pretty stupid stuff sometimes. Just my 2 pennies. +1 Drhodes....If a bike stalled in the middle of rush hour traffic isn't a safety problem then what is it? | ||
| Chameleon |
I doubt the NHSTA would agree. A safety issue is something that can cause deaths, serious injuries and/or significant property damage. This problem will not cause any of that. I've thrown a belt in the middle of traffic in the early morning when it's still dark and didn't get injured or suffer any property damage. This is about the same as far as the potential for harm. But I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Let us know if the NHSTA contacts you about it. |
