| Author | Message | ||
     Parrick |
I have seen several posts on here from people who have suggested that they intend to remove the charging system harness and go back to the original configuration. It seems that the motivation for this is based on the wide system voltage fluctuations that one sees after the harness has been installed. I must say that this gives me some concern. There are a couple of reasons for this. Now before I continue, let me say first that I FULLY SUPPORT anyone that wants to wrench on their own bike to make it the way they want it to be or attempt to resolve an issue that they find troubling. Additionally, as some may recall, I am no fan of the harness itself. I have referred to it in the past as a "band-aid" fix and I still maintain that position. However, short of making other changes I have to say that the removal of the charging system harness is a mistake. The theory behind the harness is that, under certain conditions, it cuts out one leg of the stator to reduce the amount of heat that the stator has to dissipate. The effect of this is (hopefully)increased longevity of the stator. The down side of this setup is that the system voltage fluctuates significantly when the harness relay cycles and it is especially evident when the bike is used on the street in stop & go public traffic. Essentially, when you are not cruising on the freeway at better than 5k rpm the bike's battery is supporting much of the power requirements of the motorcycle. When you get up to speed the harness "releases" the 3rd stator leg and the charging system replenishes the battery. This deep-cycling of the battery is harder on the battery to the benefit of the stator. But which one would you prefer to have to replace more often? My answer is "Neither". That is why I have made the modifications that I have. In my opinion the solution lies in: 1) Clearing the way for the oil flow to cool the stator. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/574635.html 2) Replacing the regulator with one which is better balanced to the increased output of the '09 stator. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/588143.html?1282091581 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/592310.html http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/disc us.cgi?pg=next&topic=290431&page=586788 3) Remove harness AFTER #1 & #2. 4) I am beginning to suspect that the difficulty involved in getting the engine oil level "just right" may play a part as well. The stator is oil cooled and if the level is off one way or the other that may impede the ability of the stator to dissipate heat. The above is only what I have done based on my own opinions and observations. Only time will tell if the modifications will have a positive effect. However, if you are not going to change anything else I think you are better off leaving the harness in place. At least it is doing SOMETHING to increase the longevity of the (expensive) stator. Granted, the voltage fluctuations are annoying and the battery is going to wear faster but something is better than nothing. Battery longevity can be helped by using a proper battery maintainer during off hours. For the record, here are my stats to date: Stator replaced and oil blockage removed at 3678 mi. Harness installed at 3901 mi. R/R replaced with Mosfet FH012AA and harness removed at 5461 mi. Currently at 6372 mi with no charging issues or failures. Sorry about the long post but as one of the "Harness Detractors" I felt compelled to point out that it's not THAT BAD. It serves a purpose and if you don't want to experiment with other UNPROVEN methods like I am doing (and take responsibility for failures) you should leave it on there IMO. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
4) I am beginning to suspect that the difficulty involved in getting the engine oil level "just right" may play a part as well. The stator is oil cooled and if the level is off one way or the other that may impede the ability of the stator to dissipate heat. I've been pretty suspicious of this myself as a cause of stator failure. -Tutt | ||
| Mac_inger |
Thank you Parrick for putting all the info together clearly in this post. | ||
| 1_mike |
After taking mine apart, and seeing all of the plastic "deflectors" in the case, I'd bet there is minimal actual oil "flow" in that side of the case. Just excess oil from one bushing and one bearing. That's not much oil flow...! I'd bet the oil flow is more of a mist in that side of the case. I could be wrong...but from what I saw, I'd bet not. As in the other current stator thread, I'm working on the regulator as the problem culprit. Kicking off one section of the stator...does little to nothing in the overheating of the other two sections. I'm betting better overall power managment, e.g., the regulator is the way to better fix this problem. And as noted, so far, my regulator cooling fan "seems" to be working. Mike | ||
| Dannybuell |
Parrick - I agree and respect you for your honesty and thoughtfulness. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Great write up! I still don't understand why the heck they don't back up to the 08. At least it works. | ||
| Freight_dog |
Kicking off one section of the stator...does little to nothing in the overheating of the other two sections. I'm betting better overall power managment, e.g., the regulator is the way to better fix this problem. Yeah, didn't I see a picture of a stator around here that was two thirds burned out and one third looked new? Obviously burned out after the harness install. I have said it before but my solution for now is to take advantage of my warranty. Then when it is up, if I still have problems, and if Parrick's fix proves to be a good one, I will follow his directions. Thanks for putting the info out there Parrick! | ||
| Parrick |
Thank you all for the kind comments. It really wasn't the point of this post to promote my own speculations as to the issues which might contribute to the stator failures, but while I am on the subject, there is one other factor which I have been considering. That has to do with the stock muffler. The stock muffler is a strong radiant heat source which is tightly fitted directly under the oil reservoir. The heat from the muffler would likely tax the oil cooling system and hotter oil plus hot stator...well you get the picture. For many people with a new bike the first thing to get swapped out is the stock muffler. Many of the aftermarket mufflers for this bike move the main can further back and open up the bottom of the engine to better air flow. Hence, lower oil temps and possibly better stator cooling. It's just another speculation but there have been many people who have stated that they have many miles on this bike and have not had a stator issue. It would be interesting to know how many of the no-failure bikes were fitted with an aftermarket exhaust shortly after purchase. It is also reasonable to assume that when Rotax developed the engine that the initial testing was not done with the stock muffler/heat source in place. I expect that part was one of the last things to be designed in the development process. It might explain why some bikes have had failures while others are still problem free with no modifications and no harness. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Parrick - Good point. Heat from the muffler could contribute to all kinds of problems. | ||
| Mac_inger |
So interesting. Thanks again Parrick for the concise point of view,...i might actually break down and buy that aftermarket muffler after all. cheers PS. i went through the links you posted earlier,..but i did it kinda quick because im at work. Is there one with detailed description on what extra wires are needed, procedure and so on that goes into swapping the regulator ? | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Interesting thought on the oil level. I always run mine just under the overfull mark. I have 8300 miles with no problems at all. I dont know if that means anything but worth mentioning. | ||
| Blk09r |
Parrick - Nice job assembling all this information in one place. Mac - You don't need any extra wires to install the FH012 regulator. The extra wires in my description were to lengthen the harness so I could relocate the regulator to under the passenger seat. I'm still using the harness upgrade even though I am using the "better" regulator. I don't believe it will harm anything and it might help to extend the life of the stator a bit, although some good points have been brought up concerning oil temps from the stock muffler and the remaining two legs of the stator still being allowed to overheat. The battery isn't really being cycled that heavily as long as the system voltage remains above 12v. The main thing is not to leave the battery in a discharged state over a long period to prevent it from sulfating. If (when) my stator does fail I'll bring it to a local rebuilder rather than replacing it with a factory regulator. Even if it's still under warranty. | ||
| Mac_inger |
Blk,...thanks for the info | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
I can't help but think that Erik Buell Racing needs to be finding a fix for their new steet bike's charging if it has any chance of being a big seller. At some point maybe we can benefit from some of their engineering expertise with a kit to permanantly fix our 1125's. It would go a long way toward's selling the new 1190 bike to 1125 owner's. Are you listening Erik Buell Racing? | ||
| Curve_carver |
Erik buell racing has a fix for their race bikes.Notice that they never had a stator failure?? They have been using 08 stators in all of their bike ever since dannys bike had a stator failure in one race. He was lucky enough to run off the battery and finish. They knew the 09 stator was a bad design.They knew right from the beginning. But what gets me is that they continued to produce 09s and put them on showroom floors for sale. Selling something to consumers they knew was a a inferior product. Heck they sell 08,09,10 engines for race purpose knowing that the stators will fail on the 09s. What does that tell you? I was told early this year dont tell anyone but we dont even use 09 stators in all of our race engines.And then told me the danny story above. I had a stator go bad on my bike.What to do what to do? Give my money to someone that knew the stators were bad from the start? After I thought about it I bought a used 08 and rotor on ebay. So folks there is no fix for a 09 stator except a 08 stator/rotor replacement. Sorry if post ruffles anyones feathers but this info is straight from buell racing customer support. I feel the need to post this. Thats screwed up!!! selling people stuff they know will go bad. GO Buell!! | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
Why can't HD just replace the 09 stator with an 08.Wouldn't that be the right thing to do. Cheaper for them to boot! This warranty game they are playing with us is BS. | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
What's different about the 08 and the 09 stators? | ||
| Dannybuell |
output levels and rotor from what I have read here. stator size must be different too? | ||
| Mac_inger |
thats quite an accusation. I thought i read here that you cant put an 08stator in an 09 .... ? You have done so Carver ? | ||
| Bueller4ever |
You just need to change the rotor Mac | ||
| Curve_carver |
Mac, buell4ever Is correct replace your stator and rotor. Take my story which ever way you want to Mac. But when someone special at ebr tells me that they had a stator failure on Danny's bike early spring and then still produce 09s and send em out the factory knowing of the failures. That's ridonkulous!!!!! It's only common sense. Then when mine fries I call to see what a replacement would cost and he told me we don't even use 09 stators in our race engines. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to ellaborate what was going on during 09 production. They had failures and knew. I believe they knew there doors were gonna shut down way before they announced it . They just ran the parts out. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Curve_carver - great logic and easy to follow. E-B-R says almost the same thing so who wants to argue? '2008 1125R stator and cover assembly as shown. We like this combination on our race engines. It has a higher RPM break even point, and the associated 2008 rotor is a bit lighter than the comparable 2009-2010 parts. We have a limited supply of these for building race engines. Though new, these are sold as a used part without warranty' http://www.EBRacing.com/shop/product140.html | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
So far, I've only been a voyeur on the fried stator threads ... Until mine gave up yesterday at 3,112 miles. Oh joy  Mike | ||
| Milt |
Welcome to the club, Milleniumx1. Sorry to see you join. | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
Again, It's not a very exclusive club. | ||
| Cravacor |
As a potential failed-stator-club member, I say something is rotten in Denmark/Milwaukee/East Troy re. the '09 stator. I just hope my dealer gets me squared away. My concern is that the replacement part has not been redesigned and it will just cash out too. Does HD provide a warranty on parts? |
