| Author | Message | ||
     Drawkward |
Double posting this from Buelletinboard. Thought the review would be useful to some of you guys looking for aftermarket levers. This is going to be short and sweet...or bitter. I awoke this morning to my Pitbull mix barking at the front door. Fedex was here with my new Rideitmoto.com levers. From China, it took less than a week (with a weekend in the middle) to get here. Not sure how they do that. The good: - Customer service is beyond belief. You email them a question and within 10 minutes you have a response. I must have emailed their CS about 5 times within ten minutes and always had an immediate response. - Fit and finish on these levers is very good. All surfaces are bright and the machine work looks to be great. - Install is a breeze and they fit perfectly. - For someone looking for a nice alternative to expensive levers, these are a perfect match. If the looks of a shorty lever set are what you're after and you're on a budget, I'd say go for it. The Bad: - I bought these levers to get more throw out of the brake lever. I need the lever to be farther away from the bar. These don't do it...not even close. On setting 6, the shortys are as far from the bar as the stock levers (maybe even a tad closer). - If you want a nice set of inexpensive levers to use at the track, for greater lever throw that will help with feel when experiencing brake fade (which I do every time), go another route and stay away from these. There you have it. Great for the aesthetics and cool factor without a doubt, bad for the functionality of a race day lever. Just not enough throw for me. All that said, if anyone wants to purchase my set (shorty red with black adjuster) I'll sell them for $75 shipped. They are originally $80 shipped and I've only had them on the bike today going to work. They're coming off when I get off work and going back in the box. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
sweet thanks for the review | ||
| Jng1226 |
Edited to say I changed my mind and am getting a E_B_R rotor and new pads Still interested in seeing pics though and seeing a long-term report. Thanks! Jeff (Message edited by jng1226 on September 14, 2010) | ||
| Augustus74 |
You might be the first guy I've heard of that wants a farther reaching lever!?!? Hope you find what you are looking for! | ||
| Westmoorenerd |
I'll get second dibs if it falls through... | ||
| Jng1226 |
Changed my mind. I'm going with a E_B_R disc upgrade and new pads first. Thanks anyways and I suppose that Westmoorenerd is now next on the list. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
I saw "Chinese" and made my decision. No thanks. | ||
| Buellsruell |
^^Troo'dat'. | ||
| Drawkward |
You can say anything you want about the "Chinese" part of these levers but they're just as good as anything made here in America at less than HALF the price. That was good enough for me! Augustus, I've never really seen too much convo on the levers to be honest. I absolutely hate the stock brake lever, it's terrible. Another guy I race with who is a member here (I think) has the same problem with his bike. The brake lever, when the brakes start to fade, comes way too close to the bar and loses feel. Do you ever do really hard braking in a track setting. Actually, has anyone had this problem other than me? Pics will be coming after work today, or soon if I can find a port here at work. | ||
| Jng1226 |
I saw "Chinese" and made my decision. Uh, take a look at the "made in" sticker on the computer you're typing this on. Or your iPod, or any other big-ticket electronics in your possession. China and Taiwan have some of the most sophisticated manufacturing plants in the world. Unfortunately they have some of the worst manufacturers as well in other regions. The trick is knowing which part comes from where. Don't make generalizations about an entire country, it really reinforces how ignorant some Americans are perpetuates stereotypes. Drawkward - If you search around, there are tons of posts about brake fade under very hard use, especially at the track. Getting new levers only is a band-aid on the problem, IMHO. Changing fluid, pads, rotor/mounting bolts and then ultimately master cylinder is the typical sequence of fixes to a softening brake lever. | ||
| Jdugger |
Changing the fluid makes an incredible difference. Even if just putting in ordinary Dot4, using fresh fluid and servicing it frequently makes a huge difference. The Erik Buell Racing finned rotor, mounting kit, fresh fluid, and good pads will get you well down the road of an excellent high performance braking system on the bike. If you step up to a "race" fluid, just keep in mind you will probably need to service it more frequently. I swap mine out every couple of months -- usually when I do brake pads -- just for good measure. It's a cheap upgrade. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Jng1226 - I think this 'China' thing has more to do with the Republicans sending American jobs overseas for the last 40 years (Clinton sent them to Mexico) than anything else. | ||
| Drawkward |
JD, we've had this convo before. I have the stock rotor and mounting hardware...but I do have Motul RBF600 fluid that's about a month old and new EBC HH pads. There is still an incredible amount of brake fade. Those rotor pictures I sent you show that I'm not getting that purple/blue color on my rotors...so why are the brakes fading so much? My opinion? The stock ZTL2 single rotor isn't a good track setup and a stock dual disc outperforms it. Like I said though, the CnR lever that I used my last trackday made the brakes feel so much better. Short of buying a new rotor and hardware (and not being sure if it will even solve the problem) I am out of ideas. One shouldn't have to work this much to have their effing brakes perform correctly. | ||
| Jdugger |
> .so why are the brakes fading so much? Air in the lines? Something is amiss, I agree. I have a bone stock '09 I run on the track as a "B" bike, and as long as I keep the fluid fresh, it doesn't fade too terribly in a 30 minute session. That's with OEM or Extreme Pro pads, OEM rotor mount, etc., and at Eagle's Canyon, which is VERY MUCH a braking oriented track. > The stock ZTL2 single rotor isn't a good track setup and a stock dual disc outperforms it. We could have a gentlemen's disagreement about this (and I might even agree with you in theory), but I suspect that's not the issue here. I mean, for a white-plate guy in the CMRA or in AMA, *sure*, maybe the design is fundamentally compromised. But for guys like you and me? I say it's just fine and something else is up. Hey, you're in Texas right? How close are you to Eagle's Canyon? What if you come out and we chase down the bug? I've got a garage at the track with all the fixins', so it's really just a matter of running it until she fades, and letting me tinker a bit. I've got the ZTL2 on 3 bikes, and two of them have a LOT of track miles on them. I don't get fade like you are describing -- in fact, the brakes actually firm up after the first lap once they are hot. | ||
| Drawkward |
I'm pretty confident that there is no air in the lines as the braking on the street is fine, no problems whatsoever. But I guess it doesn't hurt to check it out anyways. I'm about 6 hours away from ECR but I have been wanting to take a journey up there with Ridesmart or some other TD org before the season runs out. It's just a matter of money and time off from work. I've got Grandsport Speedway this weekend and then TWS on the 25th or 26th, MSRH or GSS on Oct 3rd and on and on. I can't seem to find the time for a 2 day trip up there but I very much would like to ride it!! (Message edited by drawkward on September 14, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
> braking on the street is fine Yea, that doesn't tell you anything. (as you know now) The street, unless you ride like a total jackass, can't really diagnose anything with a motorcycle. Your problem -- brake fade that comes easily -- is generally an air-in-the-lines or old/wet fluid. So, that's where I'm starting. You don't see it on the street because you aren't getting the kind of heat input it takes to get the fluid to it's boiling point. We live, and especially you, in really "moist" places. So, that fluid goes fast, having taken on water from the air the second you opened the bottle to pour it into the system. It's also possible you got a bad bottle... who knows. The OEM MC is really friggin' hard to bleed because there's no way to get air out of the top of it. One of the things I love about the Brembo is you can let it sit ziptied overnight and the bleed out the air from the MC as well as the caliper. Try this: zip tie the brake lever to the bar reasonably tight. Tap the line gently with a light screw driver from the bottom Up. (think tap tap tap tap tap tap up the line) Let it sit over night. Tap it out again. Cut the zip tie, apply modest pressure and CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY loosen the banjo bolt on the MC. So slowly you either start to see fluid weep ever so slowly under the modest lever pressure you are applying, or hopefully it spits some bubbles. Tighten back before the lever gets to the bar. One question: When you bled/flushed the lines with RBF the last time, how much was left in the bottle when you were done? It sucks you are having so much trouble with this. I'll ask you to give the ZTL a chance -- they do hold up well to abuse when working right. I've had several riders of nice japanese machines comment on how they really like the way the Brembo RCS19 and ZTL2 caliper work together -- progressive, with plenty of strength. These are guys that pass me like I've got my kickstand down in the corners, so I know the braking system CAN be pretty darn good. I'm gonna be at the Elite trackdays event Oct 16/17 in San Marcos... you doing that one? | ||
| Buellsruell |
"Uh, take a look at the "made in" sticker on the computer you're typing this on. Or your iPod, or any other big-ticket electronics in your possession" Could that be because we don't have a CHOICE? I own MANY things that are Made in China...but that's only because I'd rather HAVE them than NOT have them. But *IF* I can support THIS country by buying American- I will every time. JMO, though. ------ "You can say anything you want about the "Chinese" part of these levers but they're just as good as anything made here in America at less than HALF the price. That was good enough for me! " It's pretty easy to price something cheaply when another company (Pazzo, a Canadian company) has already done ALL the design work FOR you, and all you have to to is duplicate their product 100%! ...and let's not forget that China has the lowest manufacturing labor rates in the WORLD...what is it like $1.50 per hr on average?? | ||
| Drawkward |
Ya, through our convos I've come to realize I have to diagnose all my braking problems weekend to weekend at the track...it can become frustrating! I'll do the ziptie process tonight for sure, thanks for the idea. When I bled the lines (using the clear hose into a bottle method) I bled the entire system twice. I used probably a little over half the bottle, maybe more. I initially bled all of the fluid out of the lines and caliper. Then I added the new 600 fluid and got all the air out of the system and bled it again to get all the new fluid and whatever old was in there out of the system. After that I filled the system with new fluid again and bled it again. When it was first done the brakes had great bite on the street...but the first day at the track with the new fluid AND new EBC HH pads I still got fade after a few sessions. Like you're saying, there's got to be air in there somewhere or something. I'd love to get the Brembo RCS19, as I've heard a few people talk about it now, including you. I won't be able to make the Elite TD in October. How do you like that org? I've never ridden with them...I typically stay around the Houston area and the farthest away I've gone is TWS. Like I said, I'd love to get out and do ECR, Cresson and H2R but it's all about logistics and money!! Damn money! I wish I was independently wealthy so I could be a rolling chicane all around the country  | ||
| Drawkward |
I've heard this before and I'll call bullshit on it yet again. If I installed my CAD program that's been sitting on the shelf I could have a set of levers designed for the bike in an afternoon without stealing anything. The design of the levers is almost the same across the board from each manufacturer. They're not much different...pazzo, CRG, CnR... That's not why they're 70 to 100 bucks cheaper. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Elite TD in October. How do you like that org? I think it's probably the best of the public track day organizations. It's more expensive, but the format is a lot more like a private member day, and the squid factor is way low. In the "quick group" which is a by promotion only process, the riders are shockingly fast. Very talented, clean, fantastic riders. I did my CMRA race license school with them and really enjoyed the day. Check with me when you are ready to do an ECR weekend, you can come up as a guest. We can set up a Fri afternoon/Sat/Sun and get you sick of the track you get so much track time. Typically, there will be about 5-10 bikes on the track tops, and you pretty much ride as much as you want and come and go from the track as you please if cars aren't there -- totally different experience than a public track day. It will spoil you for riding with track day orgs. Not cheap -- but worth it. With tires, travel/hotel, track fees, etc., it's probably close to a $1,000 weekend, but there's no better way to get the experience. | ||
| Jdugger |
> I wish I was independently wealthy so I could be a rolling chicane all around the country LOL! Well, I'm far from well off, but I've made motorcycling a priority, so I've been lucky enough to try some different tracks and get plenty of track time. It's one of life's nice perks, for sure. We have it really good in Texas, honestly. A lot of the tracks here are a country-club format, so get hooked up with the right people and you are riding as a guest all the time on local member days. Generally, I'll trade one of my half-dozen free guest passes at my home track with someone I know that's got a membership elsewhere. So, 4-5 weekends year, I get to ride on a different track. It's a cool way to do it. Check out Motorsports Ranch or Grandsport and see if they have private membership programs. It's a BIG lump to swallow initially, but I think it's worth it. After a couple of years, your "cost per track day" starts to go down quite a bit, and you get a lot more time per day with fewer bikes on track than with the trackday orgs. | ||
| Drawkward |
Here are the photos of the levers.     Next two pics are the levers on setting 6, the farthest out.   | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
those look exactly, EXACTLY, like my Pazzos even down to the finish on the top. The only difference is color and "Pazzo Racing" logo on the inside of the lever. | ||
| Jdugger |
DOOD! No wonder you are having problems! You put on pink levers! Now you have girly brakes! | ||
| Drawkward |
Hahahahaaha!!! I know, they came with Hello Kitty stickers too! They're not tooooo bad. They are definitely red, just a tad lighter. I did the zip-tie thing and I *think* I got a small amount of air out, but I'm not absolutely certain...there were some bubbles I think. Interestingly enough, when I took the zip-tie off last night to re-do it, the brake lever went all the way to the bar without loosening the banjo bolt...as if there was no pressure in the lines or caliper. I thought that was odd. this morning when I did it again there was pressure in the system and the only thing that came out of the banjo bolt was fluid. So that's good I guess. It felt firmer on the way to work too. | ||
| Jdugger |
Zip tie overnight until it stays firm... Hopefully what happened was the air in the lines bubbled up into the res and was replaced with fluid. But keep at it. | ||
| Drawkward |
I still have these if anyone wants them. Let me know. | ||
| Westmoorenerd |
Sorry, went with some take-off ASV's. | ||
| Drawkward |
Bump |
