| Author | Message | ||
     Bikerboy1028 |
I never found affordability an issue. I think that Buell was reasonably priced. I also believe that regardless of any legal restrictions from Harley, that "Buell" will be able to start fresh wherever Erik decides to go. That might mean starting with fresh ideas, something that Erik Buell will have no trouble doing...even if he loses ZTL brakes and other patents to Harley. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
That's my point, the fact that they were priced well was a good thing. I hope it continues with the new venture. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
The new bikes I'm pretty certain will be expensive as they will be built with premium parts so they can be easily homologated (sp?) for successful racing. I think this is an old rumor as I don't see Harley, the most arrogant corporation in America, with a long history of trying to screw people (and currently even their own dealers as they try to downsize and force smaller dealerships out of buisiness) changing their mind about selling Buell. Eric can make some engine changes to get around the HD patents. The ZTL braking does not work well for racing. It gets too hot and the rotor moves so fast it actually STRETCHES the pads (this from Team McFarland) so don't expect to see that system. I would love to see Buell back in buisiness, and I'm sure we will, but I think the new bikes are going to be very expensive but also very well (hand) built. -Tutt | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I met him while working in James Gang pit during the short lived MotoST series. Nice guy, but again, not sure he'd be in the loop, so to speak. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Tutt, who is this "Eric" you speak of, and why is he messing with Buell designs? | ||
| Ezblast |
Such a sweet dream though - solve so many issues! EZ | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Sorry, I mispelt Erik's name. Was out riding my CR all day and sort of tired! You know what I meant. -Tutt | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I know, it's customary to rag on people who don't spell Erik Buell properly. | ||
| Jng1226 |
What I can't understand is how the H-D board doesn't fire the entire management team with the last 2 years of absolute bonehead moves. Obviously shutting down Buell pisses everyone here off, but the real kicker to me is the recent closing of their saga with MV Agusta. Less than 2 years ago H-D bought MV Agusta for around $120 Million, ostensibly to gain access to their European distribution network and sell more H-D product. Just last month a deal was concluded to sell MV back to the Castiglioni family they purchased it from. The deal? The actual transaction details were just revealed due to public company filings and it turns out that the Castiglioni's paid 3 Euros (less than $4.00). There's more to the deal: H-D, as part of the purchase agreement, put 20 Million Euros ($25 Million) into escrow for operating capital of the company under new ownership. Not only did these A-HOLES at H-D waste $125 Million to shut down one of our favorite brands instead of selling to BRP-Rotax or other interested parties, they paid the original owners of MV Agusta another $25 Million to TAKE IT BACK! $270 MILLION plus legal fees and other related costs down the drain! As a Buell and MV owner, I could care less about H-D now as both companies will be much better off, but I can't imagine that shareholders can stand for this. It's like the Enron of the motorcycle industry. (Message edited by jng1226 on September 12, 2010) | ||
| Jens |
>Eric can make some engine changes to get around the HD patents. The ZTL braking does not work well for racing. It gets too hot and the rotor moves so fast it actually STRETCHES the pads (this from Team McFarland) so don't expect to see that system.< BS. The ZTL² work very well as E-B Racing any many other Racer and Teams (including ours) show out there on the racetracks of the world each weekend. Erik rather would quit before he use one of this standard brakesetups. The rules of physics haven´t changed because H-D closed the company. Jens | ||
| Sportster_mann |
Also posted in the 1190RS thread From asphaltandrubber.com -
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| Froggy |
Sportster_mann, that was written by Jensen Beeler, therefor isn't even worth the time it takes to read it. | ||
| Blake |
Tutt, H-D has no patent on the engine. The engine is Rotax. They have an exclusive use agreement. Not sure if that remains in force or not. Cannot imagine why H-D would care to keep it in force other than spite, which is a poor business model. Team McFarland may have trouble with their ZTL brake, but it is nothing inherent to the system. You don't win a Daytona Sport Bike championship with inferior brakes, period. | ||
| Mickeyq |
ZTL works--Pegasus in Germany continues to win races in Sound of Thunder on the 1190RR.  | ||
| Freight_dog |
My question, can the new cooling system be fitted to an 1125 without major modifications? | ||
| Augustus74 |
Apparently fitted the race bodywork and cooling to a bike costs more then the 1125R costs! http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/592659.html?1283998112 | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Tutt, H-D has no patent on the engine. The engine is Rotax. They have an exclusive use agreement. Not sure if that remains in force or not. Cannot imagine why H-D would care to keep it in force other than spite, which is a poor business model. Team McFarland may have trouble with their ZTL brake, but it is nothing inherent to the system. You don't win a Daytona Sport Bike championship with inferior brakes, period. Blake, I agree about the "exclusive use" clause with Rotax. That's a more accurate statement. My understanding was the motor was developed with "input from HD" and that no one else could use it. Its seems unlikely that is still in force however as you can see the 1125 engine for sale at Rotax here: http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/Motorcycle/Eng ine.Models.htm As to the ZTL braking comment I made, Dennis McFarland was helping Steve Burns (their mechanic) and myself remove my rear wheel to put the new Michelin 2cts on while he was visiting Steve's shop one day. He explained to me that the high speed of the rotor and heat generated under race conditions was stretching the pads (maybe the thicker pads from Erik Buell Racing are a solution here?) and that the system had been been controversial enough that he didn't expect to see its continued production on race bikes. I thought I should clarify what I said. The system seems to work well on the street! -Tutt | ||
| Badlionsfan |
ZTL has been around since the first XB's were released what, 8 years ago? I can't see Erik going back to a conventional brake set up. The only think that I think he'd replace ZTL with is another radical new design concept. | ||
| Froggy |
Tutt, the 1125 engine was listed on the Rotax site long before Buell was closed. Also, HD spent good money to buy themselves out of the contract with Rotax, but I do not know if they retained the exclusive rights to the engine. | ||
| Jens |
> .....replace ZTL with is another radical new design concept> Yes called ZTL³ (-: We use ZTL in roadracing since 2003, I am so tired of this discussion. Sorry. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Also, HD spent good money to buy themselves out of the contract with Rotax, but I do not know if they retained the exclusive rights to the engine. Even if HD retained exclusive rights to the engine, I wonder how much Rotax would have to change for a new engine to be considered a new design? Increase or decrease the V-angle a couple of degrees? Enlarge it to 1190cc? Much like getting around the patents, I doubt this would be a particularly difficult challenge either. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Froggy, I was really surprised to see it listed there for sale myself! Thanks for the heads-up. I just left a phone message for Sean Higby on his cell phone (I hope I spelled his name right!)as I have a couple of questions for him. I was given his number when I was helping Eric Barrows coordinate the photo shoot of the 3 race Buells at Laguna Seca. Hopefully he will get back to me sometime soon. Here's Eric doing his thing!  | ||
| Froggy |
Shawn Higbee.... http://www.higbee-racing.com/ | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I don't think that Rotax are offering for sale the motors on their website - more just showing what they're capable of producing. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Errrr....ZTL brakes first appeared on the 2000 model Blast! as a production item.  | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Oh ok, I wasn't sure and don't know much about the Blast, just isn't on my radar. | ||
| Luv2spd |
There is a good article about Buell in the Cycle World May's issue of what went down with Harley Davidson and Buell before HD decided to close the Buell factory. The article is called "The Demise of the Buell Motorcycle Company" by Steve Anderson. The article also features the test ride of the Barracuda 2 which was the prototype of the next 1125R to come, which looks a lot like the 1190 race bike. It is a very interesting article, and would recommend it to everybody who cares about Buell. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Thanks Froggy. I corrected the spelling in my address book. If you haven't noticed already, my spelling sucks and I would be lost without a spellchecker especially when I'm in a hurry. LOL. -Tutt | ||
| Sportster_mann |
Supposing the rumour is true, what is the BRP dealer network like in the States ? It's pretty poor in the UK ! | ||
| Jaimec |
Are you SURE?? I've never seen a Blast with an inside-out brake. It was first seen on the 2003 XB9R. |
