| Author | Message | ||
     Carbonbigfoot |
Don't know if this has been covered, so if this is redundant, I apologize. O.K. The harness upgrade/recall/fix, whatever it's called, basically shuts off one of the 3 stator legs if the ecm sees voltage greater than 12.2. Stock, it runs all 3 all the time. People over and over have had issues immediately after having the "upgrade" done. Mostly guys that do short hops, and because of the limited charging on a systems that's not really robust to start with, it creates the problems we have been seeing. Called the dealer today, and asked if there was a way to undo it. They said "Sure. Lots of stuff to add the upgrade, a pigtail, a relay, probably some other stuff to control the action, but to undo it, you just unplug it at both ends, leave it in place in case you ever want to go back to it, and just plug the 2 ends back together. Boom. Back to the stock charging." Any of you that are experiencing problems, I would encourage you to try this "Un-Fix". I'm doing it this afternoon or evening, and will post pics. Hard to describe in words, but super-silly-simple to execute. If you can get the seat off, and have full use of both your hands (or maybe even just one...) you can do this. Pics, and more to follow. BTW, This is just an intellectual exercise, and I will of course return the bike to it's "Fixed" condition. Probably won't even start it like that. To preserve the warranty. In case the stator does burn up. Once again, if this is old news, sorry for the repost. Rob | ||
| Mac_inger |
You know im up to try that too. My charging issues started right after the "fix". Not sure where the harness is exactly so i can unplug it, so pics are welcome cheers | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I haven't heard of anyone having charging issues after the fix but I have seen people mention fried stators not long afterward. However, many people have suggested that the stators were already partially damaged before the fix and failed as a matter of course after the fix. It's my understanding that the '08s have a charging system that is comparable to the '09s that have had the fix performed. (I am not positive on that, though.) I don't recall seeing a single stator failure on the '08s so presumably the '09s just overdraw the stator, causing it to fail. In short, switching the '09s back to the pre-fix state will probably accelerate the stator failure. If you have charging issues, just do what some of us '08 guys do: plug the bike into a battery tender once in a while. I do that periodically with my '08 and have never had a charging or battery-related issue. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
IMHO: Depends on your driving habits. THis is my daily transportation. Plan B sucks. If there is a way to make it do what it's supposed to do, that's what I want it to do! Really from my observation, only the short hop guys are affected by the "upgrade". My routine is on the cusp. Most of the time it's not an issue, but you can never have to much gas in your tank, or too much charge on the battery. (well, you can, and that creates an explosion risk, but you know what I mean..... <grin>  R R | ||
| D_adams |
08 here, never been on a charger yet. Battery died due to the IC draw early on, both replaced. Nothing since, but it never sits for more than a week. Last winter, maybe sat for a month, but fired right up after I completed the valve adjustment. | ||
| 1125cr |
I watched my voltage dip into the 12V range a few times after a new stator and the "upgrade harness". I got nearly 6000 miles out of the original stator without the "upgrade harness" so I think I'll go back to the way it was. It certainly inspired more confidence charging in a normal range. I will get the stator rewound if it burns up out of warranty. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Wham. 14.3 volts at Idle. If your bike is acting funny after the upgrade, try this. I'll post pics tonight. R | ||
| Dannybuell |
Carbonbigfoot - you are a big tease!! I may get into trouble for staying in front of the computer tonight. LOL! | ||
| Mac_inger |
Fleshrocket: there is a number on people in this forum that have had problems starting after the harness upgrade. Me included. When i turn the bike on in the morning its at 14.3 then i head for work (city driving, in traffic, waiting at lights, pretty much what Carbon is suggesting) and by the time i get there i'm at 12.0. Keep in mind i only go as low as 4500rpm maybe only about once a day. Never lower. Sine the 08 stators are different then maybe the tender works well for you guys. For this situation though, it doesn't make a difference. Plus don't assume everybody has their bikes in their private garage,..i live in an apt. building with an underground garage that has no outlets. Any suggestions, i'm glad to hear them... Carbon, you're killing me man. What did you do? I knew it was just a matter of time until somebody in here figured it out  My dealer (which is a sponsor here also ....) tells me they never heard of this stator issue. Id be glad to drop 1k right now on a fix to be able to ride my bike without worry. Good thing i have my Firebolt still so i can get to work. | ||
| Cptncreme |
Ya when I took mine in a while ago they ordered the harness "fix" for my bike. I'm not going back to get it put on. I haven't had a single charging issue the way my bike is without the harness so I'm not going to fix what ain't broke. I ride mine pretty much like a grandpa too, my route to work is filled with traffic and pretty uneventful. So if my stator does fail in the future, the fix can kiss my a** cuz these things are lasting way longer without it. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
F$%^ing YouTube. Takes forever to upload. Patience, patiemce. R | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
08 owner here so i sort of half pay attention to these threads (we have our own special problems :-) but isn't the point of this fix to take the excess load off of the stock voltage regulator that the new stator destroys? The mosfet regulator that others are installing is the only viable solution as of yet, correct? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Smoke4ndmears - IDK. Seems that way. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Tadaaaaaaa! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYEYGJfyBw r | ||
| Westmoorenerd |
Love the video man! Should have said something like "so easy a caveman can do it!" | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Damn. Good thought. R | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
I might give this a try just to see if I can get the bike to the dealership for a new stator this week without using a trailer. It sucks that we have to undo a fix just to get a charge at idle or low RPM. Who thought that would work? If my stator died on me last night (8.6 Vdc) do you think there's any chance it has enough juice left to charge me just enough for a 45 minute ride to the dealership? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Couldn't hurt. Make sure the dealer won't give you any crap about the stator being damaged BECAUSE of the rewire. If there's any question, trailer it. R | ||
| Daniii |
I never had a low voltage issue after the recall. But I did have a high voltage one. 16.1V at one point. Interestingly, my Garmin took a dump right after the 16.1 V issue. Dealer ordered a new Voltage regulator. It came in Friday. Wrong part! So they ordered it again...... | ||
| Dannybuell |
Jeepinbueller "....to get a charge at idle or low RPM. Who thought that would work? " HD electrics are poor, always have been. HD has been selling battery tenders for years. Odyssey battery instructions come out and say as much with out naming names. http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/pc545.pdf | ||
| Milt |
So easy a one-handed caveman could do it. Thanks, CarbonBigFoot, for enduring the upload. (Message edited by milt on August 28, 2010) | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Might be just the "my car runs better after I wash it" syndrome, but my bike just felt good on the way to work today. Like it was "happy". It really didn't want to turn in to the parking lot. Wanted to go play. Starts like, POW! Noticed on the way here voltage got down to about 13.6-13.7 after a good stretch at 4-5k rpm. Maybe someone more knowledgable than I can explain something to me. Does the output from the stator vary, controlled by the voltage regulator, or does the stator do what it does regardless, and the regulator absorb/bleed-off/convert-to-heat the additional energy? I thought that the actual production of energy was modulated to keep it consistent at different rpms, but someone I know suggested it might be the second senario. Anyone? R | ||
| Westmoorenerd |
"Unfixed" my bike today...went from being at 11.5-12.1 at idle to 13.0-13.6. That's at idle with hi-beams for 10 minutes after the "unfix." I wouldn't even dare letting the bike idle for that long with the fix. | ||
| 98s1lightning |
Lets go back to why the FIX was invented in the 1st place. Why? Wont those issues still be a problem? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Carbonbigfoot - IDK anything.. My understanding of the HD idea is to move the voltage responsibilities around the legs. The effect is to heat up one part at a time. Moving the heat around is supposed to make it last longer. This could be a case of the software controlling this loading schema needing to be a little more aggressive in low rpm conditions. I hope the FX doesn't accelerate your stators demise. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
But the "Fix" only killed one leg of the stator. By looking at the harness the other 2 will still be running wide open when it's in the reduced power mode. I don't know. Just maybe one of those things. A few people have an issue, and the company maybe makes more of an issue by trying to be proactive than if the issue was left alone....... Sometimes the cure can be worse than the disease. R | ||
| Daniii |
I watched the voltage carefuly after reading these posts. I had the "fix" 1500 miles ago. I never saw low voltages during the 1500 miles, at idle it never dropped below 13.4. I suspect those seeing low voltage had already lost part of their stator. In Sturgis a couple weeks ago, I saw a Voltage warning. Discovered I had lost a headlight when the system hit 16 volts. I suspect it also took out the Garmin 550, which started "random selections" the next day. $100 to replace. I (and the dealer) think the voltage regulator is fried. Doesn't seem to be any stator issues. I only put 500 miles on the bike before the "fix". The voltage regulator arrived at the dealer after 10 days, only to find they sent the wrong part Doh! Still waiting. | ||
| Lrsawyer |
In order to generate a voltage, you need 3 things: - Conductors (the wires in the stator) - Magnetic Field (the permanent magnets in the rotor) - Relative Motion between the two (the rotor spins on the end of the crank) Change any of the three, and you change the voltage produced. The stator has a fixed number of wires arranged in 3 phases or legs. The rotor is magnets that are pretty powerful, and constant. The speed of the engine varies greatly, so the voltage changes with it. All of this produces an AC (alternating current) that must be changed to DC. The faster the engine revs, the higher the voltage and frequency of the AC produced. The regulator module (chrome box) converts the AC to DC and controls the voltage by clipping off some of the AC sine wave as it goes through the rectifiers (AC-DC converters) It does not simply send it to ground. The fix that HD came up with takes one of the legs of the stator out under certain conditions, so the other two are left to produce the power that the electrical loads are using. You can think of the 3 legs of the stator as 3 separate generators. The relay always removes the same leg, it cannot change. While we are all unhappy with HDs marketing and business decisions, I trust that the HD engineers (working with Rotax) are highly competent and know a lot more about this than we do. I had the fix done and recommend that you keep it that way, as I am doing. However, bypassing it as shown here is a good idea to keep in mind in case you're charging system dies on the road, as it might be due to one of the two permanent legs failing. This bypass would put all 3 in all the time and may restore some capacity. | ||
| Mac_inger |
Lrsawyer,..let me see if i understand this correctly: The harness fix removes the load on one of the legs (always the same leg) so as to reduce the heat in the stator,..thus hopefully preventing failure. At the same time this produces lower voltage since now stator is not working at full capacity. So basically we are stuck between a rock and a hard place: either the stator fries sooner without the fix, or we don't get enough voltage because we are running on two legs only. ..correct-ish ? | ||
| Jules |
ish... The ECM monitors the situation and (theoretically) switches the third leg back on when the voltage drops to a predetermined level. Bear in mind the whole point of the harness "upgrade" is to help keep the stator cool then it's pretty obvious that taking the "fix" off will increase the voltages (especially at lower engine revs) it'll also increase the output of the stator (which is where those voltages come from) and increase the amount of heat generated....leading to a quicker demise of the stator.. Removing the fix will probably reap short term benefits, but in the longer run it'll still lead to a fried stator and depending on your riding style that'll happen sooner without the fix than it will with. The harness is a "band aid" rather than a proper fix, but it's probably still better than nothing.... |
