| Author | Message | ||
     Kicka666 |
So I go to check my clearances got a few quiet days to fill in, rotate the motor easy enough once you get everything out of the way. I check my front cylinder all tight, mind you the bike is 4500kms old, check the rear the same, tight, just out of spec. As the shim diameter is different to all the ricey shims I have I ring my local stealership, yep no worries have shims to suit, when I ask him for the sizes I need, sorry mate they dont come in those sizes WTF...It seems that the guenuine shims only come in .025mm increments ie: 2.50mm,2.75mm & so on. I need a 2.60mm & a few other odd sizes.. I ring another shim supplier I use & hey presto he does all the odd sizes. If mine were tight after 4500kms I would like to see them @ 20000kms when they were due.. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Are the non-dealer shims made for a Buell? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Dealer shims are the same p/n as V-Rod shims. They are 10mm dia(9.80mm). Just did mine, 6 of 8 were tight at 25k miles, shimmed for mid-to-loose and all is good. I spent 3 days fishing a shim out of the front cam chain that I dropped. Zack | ||
| Kicka666 |
Danny they are non gen shims, same same. Zac I asked them bout the V-rod shims aswell but the increments were to great to what I want, unless the parts guy didnt understand my ? seeing most Harleys run hydraulic lifters. I like to run mine in the middle of the specs. If I was to go up or down in there sizes they would be way to loose or tight, I could always get the oil stone out, but that is hard work. Picking up shims 1st thing in the morning & will fire a set of Iridiums @ it while Im there, it has been fun & not as easy as the rice burners that I am so accustomed to..  | ||
| Samg |
Just wondering...Valve clearance is tight from the factory??....Usally valves clearance loosen over time and use..Is it set tight to keep the intervals time to check them further apart? | ||
| 1_mike |
Mine were also very tight, ALL of them. I checked mine at just over 4000 miles. ALL...were under the minimum. One was well...under the minimum limit. From the few posts I've read here, other forums, and my own experience...I'd recommend that "everyone" do at least the first valve check at no more thAn 6000 miles, no matter what the book says. Just (sorta) cheap insurance. Much better than having the bike layed up at the dealer while doing "warranty" work fixing things. Mike | ||
| Xnoahx |
Harley offers them in .025 increments. The dealer probably just doesn't stock all sizes. | ||
| D_adams |
If the valves are receding into the seats as the engine wears in, they will get tighter for clearance. All 8 of mine were on the tight side, had to buy 7 shims and re-use one of the originals. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
I have a hard time believing that the valves need to be serviced before the manual says at 12k. Harley loves to charge people for more servicing, so if it neededs it early why wouldn't they set the valve check earlier then 12k. Is there anyone that waited until 12k to check their valves? if so were they in spec? Also, What are your riding characteristics? Are you at high rpms a lot? Doesn't that have a big effect on the valves? | ||
| D_adams |
I waited on doing mine, they were all on the tight side and out of spec. I run it fairly hard, but it's not a full time race bike like it should be. It does see it's fair share of higher rpm use though. I could be wrong, but Rotax probably specified the valve adjustment interval as part of the design when it was built. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I was too broke to get the service done until 17K miles. According to the bill no shims were used (since I was charged for none) so that leads me to believe the lash was within the desired parameters even after 17K miles. I baby my engine, keep the revs between 3500 and 7500 mostly with little WOT action or prolonged high speed runs. | ||
| Keef |
just asking,did you see your motor rotated down and forward while it was at the dealership..... | ||
| Mhpalin |
I just finished doing mine at 17000km 2 intake were tight 006 and 007 0ne ex was at 004 and the rest were to tight so I agree check them early Mike | ||
| 1_mike |
Dktech - Believe what you like...! Being a teck guy, you might know best, right? Have you checked yours to verify your comment..? As for the "valve clearance loosening"... 1. you have seat recession into the head = tight 2. you have valve recession into the seat = tight 3. you have shim wear = loose 4. you have rocker wear = loose 5. you have cam wear = loose Unfortunatly Rotax hasn't got it quite right yet and 1 & 2 above..are apparently greatly outweighing 3 thru 5. Now on my 03, Yamaha R1, with right at 99,000 miles, after checking every Christmas break, I've "never" had to replace a shim. And yea, it's seen it's share of the rev. limiter. Mike | ||
| Ccryder |
My ST1300 needed adjustment at 84,000 miles and then it was 4 out of 16. I did check them every 16,000 miles. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
1_mike, I have owned alot of different machines that need valve adjustments, and what i have found is that how hard the machine is driven has a big factor on how the valves stay in spec. For example, a quad that i drove lasted two years before it needed a valve adjustment. My brother drove the crap out of a quad and it needed a valve adjustment after 3 months. I'm not saying you are wrong. I just find it hard to believe that rotax would say that it doesn't need a valve adjustment until 12k, and people are checking at 4k and they are out of spec. It makes me wonder if those people drive like my brother and are driving the machine like a bat out of hell. Like i said before, i would be interested to hear how out of spec the valves are of people that checked at 12k. Honestly I am afraid that i would goof up the valve adjustment. I tried to do one on a ktm quad and backed out because i had trouble finding top dead center. I have no problem getting to the valves, its the adjusting part that scares me. Also, I heard about people that dropped shims into the engine and had to fish them out, that also scares me. | ||
| Stimbrell |
Anyone have a copy of the service instructions for checking clearances and changing shims, not anywhere near needing to do this yet but would like to see what's involved. Cheers. | ||
| Drawkward |
Dktechguy112:
This bike wasn't ever advertised as something you should baby. That's a poor excuse. What qualifies as riding a bike "like a bat out of hell"? Trackdays? Higher than 5k RPM? | ||
| Ccryder |
The most time consuming part is rotating the engine. If you look here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/391454.html?1221306863 you will get some insight to that task. THe actual valve check is not that complicated or difficult. The SM gives a step by step on that, mines at home and..... it is Copywrited so.... If you want come over and I'll lend you mine for a week or so. later Neil S. | ||
| Daggar |
Dktech - I checked mine at 12k, and they were in spec. Also, don't be afraid to do the valve inspection on this bike. I did it and really enjoyed it. You've pretty much torn yours apart and put it back together, so you won't have a problem.  | ||
| Kicka666 |
Dktech I thought you would of checked yours when you did the frame change, would of taken no time @ all. The only reason I checked mine at 4500kms is that its quiet at work & I used mine as a guinnea pig as a few of my customers ride them. Im glad I did seeing they were out of spec, they still had clearance as the Rotax does have big clearances. | ||
| 1_mike |
Dktech - I also have no idea why Buell would advertize the interval they have. All I know is, either someone didn't set them correctly originally...or...the aluminum the heads are made of is pretty poor..as in soft. In this modern day, the seats should NOT be pounding into the head with the tiny springs the valves need. Hell the springs in the aluminum heads on my car (small Chevy) are over 220lbs. on the seat. What are the 1125's...maybe 75lb's ? Anyway, as you've seen, I'm not the only one with the problem. Mike | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Hindsight being 20/20, i should have checked the valves when i had the frame off. I wanted to get it back together and make sure there was nothing wrong with it. Also, I tried to adjust the valves on a ktm engine a couple of years ago and i gave up. I got the valve covers off, but i had trouble finding top dead center. I rotated the wheel about 10-15 times and couldn't find top dead center. I had to take it to the dealer. The problem is, I don't have anyone to show me this stuff. My dad is not mechanically inclined, and he hates working on machines. I have had to teach myself everything i know through forums and reading service manuals. I don't mind tearing down a bike, and swapping the frame, i am comfortable with that. But i have never done anything on the inside of an engine, i don't know much about it, and I know that if i mess up there is a good chance i will need a new engine. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Has anyone dropped the engine, instead of rotating? I was thinking of lifting the whole frame/front forks off the engine/rear tire and swing arm. I'd rather have plenty of room. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
This has been a very useful thread guys. I've decided to check the valves before my factory 2 year warrenty expires just in case so we can document if there is a problem building up in the valve train. Thanks guys. -Tutt | ||
| D_adams |
Dktechguy112 -- you've done well enough so far, the internals of the engine aren't difficult to understand. TDC on the compression stroke is easiest to find with the spark plug out and valve covers off. Both intake and exhaust lobes on the cams will be pointed away from the valves. There's an inspection port on most bikes to see a timing mark on the rotor, but you can get pretty close with just looking into the spark plug hole and watching the piston come up to the top as you roll the engine over. Once it's there, the cam followers or rockers will be (typically) loose to where you can slide a feeler gauge in to check the clearance. Sometimes you'll get one that has NO clearance at all or even holds the valve open. You'll get burnt valves from that if it's left that way too long. Write down the numbers on a chart indicating each position. Slide the follower away, pull the shim out and either measure it or record the number on it. Replace each one as you go along back into it's original spot. Compare the readings with what's needed and either add or subtract to get the next shim size. Most dealers will have the shims, it's the same as the v-rod. I think there was a chart with the shim numbers in the back of the service manual. Replace them one at a time so that nothing gets mixed up. Re-check the clearances after rotating the motor around a couple of full turns to allow the shims to seat. Actual check and swap out of shims, maybe 1-2 hours if you have a dealer with shims handy. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
d_adams, Thanks for the advice, i will remember that if i ever try a valve adjustment bueller4ever, Yes i have dropped the engine. I had to do this when i changed out my frame. It really isn't that hard, just time consuming. Now that i have done it once, I could do it in 6-8 hours. The main thing to remember is the manual tells you to do way more then you need to. For example, the manual says to pull the front wheel, then the forks, and then the triple trees. What i did is pull the top triple tree and dropped down the front end in one piece. The manual says to basically remove all the electronics from the subframe, but the trick to that is to unbolt the subframe, and then put the subframe through the frame as you pull the frame off the bike. Here are a few pics of my swap:       | ||
| Stimbrell |
D Adams, Many thanks for that description, that is just what I was interested in knowing, my four stoke bikes have all been hydraulic, self adjusting. Cheers. | ||
| D_adams |
I thought I had posted these a while back but I can't seem to find them now.        | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
valves clearance loosen over time and use not true the spring is constantly trying to pull the steel valve and seat into the soft aluminum head so as the engine wears they are going to sink further into the head causing the clearences to get tighter. (Message edited by lastonetherebuys on August 21, 2010) |
