| Author | Message | ||
     Philp |
Howdy Gang, I saw a write-up on tuning the 1125R suspension that recommended the fork tubes be adjusted flush with the top triple tree. Has anyone set them this way? Did it help handling? It seems that doing this would increase the very short trail and, as such, improve overall handling. Thoughts? -Phil | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I quoted sport riders recommended settings in a post on badweb and I tried setting up my 08 1125r per them. I found that their settings had waayyy too little fork rebound damping. I think I went about two full turns stiffer on rebound damping and a half turn or so on comp damping. I set preload per their recommendation and set the fork tubes to be flush with the top of the triple as well. While doing some low speed parking lot strafing (empty I might add), I noticed the bike didn't want to turn very easily so I cranked the preloa up to max. That actually made it worse, so I backed off preload entirely and that was much better. I am thinking about setting the fork tubes back to stock height after a test ride so I can do a before and after. | ||
| Philp |
I'm sorry I missed that. That's actually where I found the recommendation! I haven't tested their rec.'s yet but I was going to see how it handled before lowering the tubes. I'm curious, were you able to set the rear damper out four turns from max (as recommended)? The most mine will go is 3-3/4 from min to max. I assume when they (and Buell) say turns, they mean full 360 deg. turns, right? | ||
| Steve899 |
makes it much better on a race track and on the street. just my 2 cents | ||
| Steve899 |
Rear damper? Buell book says Rear shock has preload in Notches , Compression Damping clicks out from Max and Rebound in Turns out from maximum. I would never say that max out would be a good thing on any of the settings. | ||
| Rodrob |
I tried this at the track on the recommendation of a mechanic who told me that it would improve high speed stability by increasing rake and therefore trail. Made sense. I hated it. In fact I think it made my bike dangerous on the track. There are just too many variables in setting up a suspension, especially for racing, to make a blanket statement about any one adjustment making an overall improvement in handling. In my case, lowering the fork tubes did two main things - Ruined the super quick steering response and turn in that i love about this bike - And made the bike unstable exiting turns or accelerating through high speed turns, by effectively reducing the swingarm angle, leading to less anti-squat and and vague steering response under throttle. IMHO, depending on your riding style, lowering the fork tubes might make the bike more comfortable for you to ride, but not necessarily improve handling. The increased trail will create more castering or centering force on the steering, but that does not mean that the bike's handling is better or more stable under all conditions. As a general rule, you want to work on the front of the bike to get braking and turn-in right, and then the rear to maximize exit drive and stability under acceleration. You have to look at it as a whole system. If you change one thing, you are probably going to have to compensate elsewhere. | ||
| Velocity |
+1 Rodrob, my experience was similar went back to almost stock height and played with rebound and compression to get it right. A wise man on here told me to experiment with the settings to find what works for you. Scott | ||
| Skntpig |
Once you get close to a good setup you will find that just an 1/8th of a turn or less makes a noticable difference. I think lots of folks miss the sweet spot by adjusting too much. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Skntpig - Good point about sweet spot tuning with 1/8 of a turn. Small increments at the end makes sense. | ||
| Rodrob |
+1 on small changes. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
If everyone on here measured their sag, then most would have the front pre-load set to zero, imo. Setting the sag correctly is the first step in setting up any suspension. The manual recommends such and such preload for a certain weight range, but I've found those settings to be completely wrong. I raised my fork tubes for quicker steering. I don't do high speeds, so I don't know what it would do. | ||
| Philp |
Well I guess the deal with my bike is I can set a wide range of suspension settings and it always runs great at higher speeds leaning over pretty well on the back road twisties. Where I keep coming up short is at slower speeds in sharper turns. If I hit a bump or rise in the cement between turns, or get a little throttle surge, the front end just feels epileptic. I also feel like the rear shock transmits way too much shock to my arse no matter how I adjust the rear compression or damping. I think the problem is I'm only ~160 lbs and the suspension is designed/built for heavier riders. Even the MOM suggests this if you look at the rider weight settings. Lastly, the height of my tubes is 5/8" above the triple tree. Is that what the stock setting should be? Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. As you can tell, I'm not too savvy with suspension tuning. On my MG Norge I just adjusted the preloads a couple times then rear damping and the thing rails at all speeds. Both bikes offer loads of fun in different ways. I would love to get the Buell feeling as stable as my MG. (Message edited by philp on July 13, 2010) | ||
| Rsh |
There are essentially 2 scribe marks on the fork tubes, the 2nd scribe (lowest) should be aligned with the top of the upper triple clamp. It should be 13 millimeters from the top of the triple to the fork cap. | ||
| Philp |
Thanks Rsh. That's how mine are set up. I will continue to work the suspension before I try moving the tubes. I admit, I haven't actually measured sag. I've been trying to get setup the lazy way. I'll do the measurements this weekend. I'm curious if at my weight, I'll be able to get the right amount of sag on these stiff springs. | ||
| Pwillikers |
I'm 185lbs. My '09 cr resists turn in and while in the turn, requires constant counter steer to maintain a line. If I let up on the counter steer mid turn, it stands right up. I've reduced the front preload from the recommended, for my weight, 7 turns to 4 and increased rear preload from the recommended 4 notches to 6. With this setting, it turns in easier and requires much less counter steer mid turn to maintain a line. I'm heading in the right direction and still working it, but I can easily see zero front preload as the best setting for steering neutrality. I agree that running with zero front preload will put the front sag numbers way out of wack, so, I'll probably have to raise the forks from their current, stock 14mm to, I'm guessing, 20mm and crank back in some front preload. We'll see. I'm very surprised the factory recommendations are so far off. It must have been the HD lawyers who authored that section of the manual, not Erik. How far up have you guys safely raised the fork tubes such that nothing bangs into anything it's not supposed to? | ||
| Velocity |
I tried the sport bike mag settings , witch where way tooooo much. 10mm is about right for me, I am in the 185 range also. I also went in the same direction as you are. Mine seems fine, there is a taper so you cant go to far. Oh mine is 1125R. Scott | ||
| Cowboytutt |
"Howdy Gang, I saw a write-up on tuning the 1125R suspension that recommended the fork tubes be adjusted flush with the top triple tree. Has anyone set them this way? Did it help handling? It seems that doing this would increase the very short trail and, as such, improve overall handling. Thoughts?" Hi, I'm new here and thought I would post on this as I just did it to my 1125CR the other day. It definatly makes the bike more stable in turns and slows steering response a little as is supposed to occur with sort of change. It takes a little weight off the front end and of course transfers to the rear. I need to increase rebound damping just a tad in the rear to compensate. I think I'm going to raise the tubes about half way back to stock and "split the difference" as I do think there is something to be said for this change. It might be best to wait to make this change until you have your suspension settings front and rear where you want them and then mess with the tube height. When your close to your personal suspension sweet spot little changes make a big difference. Hope that helps. -Tutt | ||
| Philp |
So I went out this evening with the help of a couple friends to lift the bike, hold it upright when I'm on it and take the measurements. With minimum rear preload, I can only get 26 mm of rear sag. On the front, with the adjusters a half turn in from minimum preload, I only get 29 mm of sag. I weigh 159 lbs without gear. The sum total of my rocket mesh jacket, helmet boots and gloves is 7.5 lbs. I don't think that will get me the 5-7 extra mm I need for mostly street riding. What are the lighter riders doing about sag? As everyone has recommended, I'll look at adjusting the tube height for later tweeking after the suspension is better dialed in. Oh. Gaining weight is not an option!  | ||
| Cowboytutt |
I found that for my 190 lb weight that the preload recommendations for the rear were fine (190 is on the cusp of two settings, #4 and #5)and number 5 was too hard. I found front recommended preload too much and I'm 3/4 to one full turn further out at present. Where the factory settings are WAY off is the recommended compression damping settings front and rear and this may be what is confusing you. You may want to try the factory recommended preload settings and back off the compression damping first. You need to drive over the same stretch of varied road surface, with turns, with your tool kit handy, and just keep experimenting. It takes time but its worth it. -Tutt (Message edited by cowboytutt on July 17, 2010) | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
What are the sag setting supposed to be? | ||
| Philp |
"What are the sag setting supposed to be?" In general, the front sag should be 30-35 mm in the rear and 35-40 in the front for street. I believe these numbers should be ~5 mm less for track. After reducing my front and rear preload as much as possible to get the sag number I quoted above, I started playing with the compression damping as Cowboytutt suggested (Thanks!) and this helped a lot in the front. I still can't get the rear to stay suck to the ground if I hit a bump at speed in the sweepers, however. (Message edited by philp on July 17, 2010) (Message edited by philp on July 17, 2010) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Honestly, I don't worry about sag. I use the preload adjusters solely to set ride height to obtain the suspension geometry that feels best. I really can't tell a difference with different preload settings, but I can definitely tell when adjusting the damping settings and suspension geometry. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Philp, I think you must be measuring wrong for the rear sag. I weigh less than you and I could get at least 30mm with minimum preload. | ||
| Philp |
It's possible and I've wondered the same thing. It seems straight forward though and there are a lot of write-ups and some videos on it (with some difference between them). That said, I might try taking it to a local tuner and see how they do it and whether they can get the numbers in range. Thanks to everyone for advice and suggestions. -Phil | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Philp, its been a long road getting my own bike set-up right and I thought I would share the experience in the hope that it helps you. The roads around here in Ukiah, CA are very bumpy and a dealership in New Mexico that set-up my friends bike told me they have similar roads and usually end up backing off on compression damping (henceforth CD) and increasing rebound damping (henceforth RD). I weigh about 190 which puts me on the cusp of two settings, 170-190 and 190-210, according to the manual. At the time, my suspension was still pretty new and I decided to set the preload (hence PL)to the 160 lb rider thinking if it was too soft it would be easy to firm up again. It was always still sort of bouncy over big bumps and I eventually backed off the rear compression all the way and it was still bouncy! Then I went to Denver to visit my friend Tym and ride his identical 09 CR. He and I weigh within a few lbs of each other and yet his bike felt like it road better than mine. It was certainly more stable. When I got home, I asked him if he could check his settings to see what they were at but he was loath to mess with it as he does not know how any of it works. Eventually, I convinced him to tell me what PL he was at (#4) and reset the click adjustable CD on the rear which was 18. So, it appeared the dealership used no magic but had set his bike up to "by the book" settings for a 190 lb rider. I therefore set up my front and rear PL, CD and RD to "by the book" settings and started all over again. I eventually backed off the rear CD in two click increments until making it softer made no noticable difference in ride. I went as far as 24 clicks then went back to 22 which seemed to be right. I had to increase the RD by 1/8" of a turn but now the back was feeling very good. Compliant but well damped. I kept riding over the same stretch of curvy, bumpy road on the same day, and also softened the front compression damping which seemed to firm after the rear was working so well. Now I was getting closer! Its riding better than it ever has but something was still sort of bouncy. Then I realized what it was: the front PL was too stiff! It had to be. I backed it off 1/8 of a turn and viola! Very nice indeed! Now I have started to mess with fork tube height, but I have come to the conclusion that what was happening at my original PL settings was that the bike was riding too low in its travel and hitting the stiff part of the spring, thus the ever bumpy ride despite the soft settings. Trying to set the rear sag to exactly some such number is not really going to help as much as you think as one click on that ramp collar is going to make a big difference and one will be too soft and one probably too hard. You may want to start with the recommended book settings for PL for your rider weight, then adjust CD, then RD. Keep riding over the same stretch of road and keep your tools handy and adjust until it makes no difference or makes it worse. Then go back to the previous setting and you will be there for that damping adjustment (or at least darn close!) It takes a lot of time, trial and error changing only one setting at a time but its worth it in the end. The Buell has a very aggressive steering geometry which creates a very narrow sweet spot. But get it right and its a stellar handling machine like few are. Hope this helps! -Tutt | ||
| Bueller4ever |
You could tell a difference in 1/8 of a turn? | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Yes, it was readily noticable on the front PL. I've softened it a bit since then but may end up putting it back an 1/8th of a turn. -Tutt | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Tutt, unless the springs are progressive rate units, there is no "stiff part of the spring". To the best of my knowledge, the 1125 fork springs are straight rate and the level of preload you use has no effecton how stiff the spring is. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Thanks 'Rocket. I don't know then what it could have been other than near the end of the shocks travel. The set-up I have now works many times better yet the preload is stiffer than it was. Go figure and thanks for correcting me. -Tutt | ||
| Philp |
Cowboytutt, Thanks for the description of how you approached the suspension tuning. I might as well give it a try as I'm getting more familiar with what I'm changing about the suspension. I think I have the preload where I need it. I'll try going back to the Owner's Manual recommended CD and RD and slowly adjust one thing at a time from there. I have been testing on the same stretch of road, which has short and wide curves as well as some bumps. I'll try to update if I have any success. |
