| Author | Message | ||
     Tpoppa |
I just got my R back with a new regulator and stator. The voltage is all over the place, but it's charging. We'll see... On a 100 mile shake down ride, this is what I saw: Cruising with no fans running, voltage is 13.6-14.2 When the fans kick on 13.0-13.4 At idle volts drop quickly and seem to settle around 12.4 | ||
| 1_mike |
I find this moderately disturbing. Rotax has been building engines for how long....and they can't get this SIMPLE system down correctly...? What other design flaws are there..? This "generator" is by definition, a magneto. It's about the simplest form of electrical generation that there is... And in my oh so humble opinion...cutting a third of the power produced as a fix, (if that's truly done) is ridiculous "fix"...or should I say crutch. Rant over.... Mike | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
1_mike, the problem lies in the fact that buell made the 09 stator more powerful, too powerful, and it gets to hot. The one rotax designed was in the 08's, and i have never heard of an 08 with a stator issue. | ||
| Avc8130 |
Seriously, what parts are necessary to convert an 09 to 08 stator setup? ac | ||
| Brumbear |
Not sure but you probably have to change the rotor as well I would just send a stator to be rewound I went to Bergan H-D and asked if they had a burnt out stator I could have to send out but have got 0 response yet. I will remove the upgrade get the machine back to stock put in an upgraded stator and have the bike reflashed once my stator craps out and see what happens thats really all I can do I will also check into putting a better VR in there as well | ||
| Pdccd |
Soo, it appears HD didn't want my burnt out stator back, so the dealer is mailing it to me. To those working on this aspect of the problem, who are you working with on the R&D rewind with? I'll send it where you've sent yours to add to the effort. | ||
| Froggy |
According to a PM I received from someone who has done it, you can put an 08 stator in an 09 as long as you use the 08 rotor. (Message edited by froggy on July 02, 2010) | ||
| Lampo |
Here's a thought: Maybe the cause of stator failures is not the stator itself. The regulator is a shunt type and all the model years use the same regulator. This design puts any excess energy the electrical system does not use/need to ground. The regulator/heat sink was designed to handle the 432 watts (peak) the '08 stator produces. The '09 models have a stator that puts out 520 watts (peak) with the same regulator and heatsink. That's 20% more output with the same regulator/heatsink capacity that was originally designed to handle 432 watts. I've got a hunch that this regulator/heatsink with the '09 520 watt (peak) output can't handle the additional shunting capacity required from the higher output stator. If the regulator can't shunt enough of the excess energy, it will have no where to go, hence creating an overheating condition within the stator. I am not an expert, this is my 'hunch' on the problem, and please don't flame we for what I am theorizing here. Just wanted to throw it out on the table for feedback. | ||
| Fast1075 |
That is good "outside the box" thinking Lampo...to be commended...that is a valuable thought process...abstract thought is a wonderful tool. | ||
| Dannybuell |
I do not have the background to completely understand your assertion Lampo. Are you saying the regulator is mismatched to the stator? | ||
| Lampo |
Dannybuell, In effect, yes, a mismatch. The regulator my be only half of the problem though or none of it, as the regulator needs to be matched with an adequate heatsink (in this case the surface area of it's mounting). The 'heatsink' is actually the plate that the regulator is mounted to, along with the sub frame. It requires a special heat-conductive silicone grease between the mating surfaces. There is a finite amount of surface area where the voltage regulator attaches to the 'heatsink' plate, and it has a finite capacity to dissipate the excess energy as heat through the regulator via the heatsink. Without inside knowledge of the design parameter data and calculations used to determine the necessary surface area required to shunt the excess (worst case, unused energy) of 432 watts and 520 watts output, I cannot prove this theory. A good Electrical Engineer might be able to determine something based on some theoretical loads; if the surface area is grossly or moderately undersized for the 520 watt output it would substantiate this theory. | ||
| Fast1075 |
And you would have to consider the delta T. The VR has to shed heat...how hot is the heat-sink??? How hot does the VR get?? | ||
| Hdwrenchtx |
dealer just called and told me they replaced the entire charging system and battery. my cost under 10 bucks. nice! | ||
| Dannybuell |
Just picked up my CR from the shop at Latus-HD, they put in a new stator and battery. Runs better than it ever did. THX again Latus-HD. | ||
| Rkc00 |
Hd and Danny Do you have the harness on it now? Let us know what Voltages you are getting once it gets hot. | ||
| Dannybuell |
I had the harness installed at my 620 MI service. Stator & Battery today at 2,511 miles. I may not be able to report to you for a while. Oregon has cooler summers until mid-late July when it occasionally warms up to the 90's. In July and August, maybe a few 100+ degree days in a row. It is sprinkling here in the Portland metro area right now. I was stuck coming back from lunch in some Freeway traffic for just a few minutes, temp was OK and voltage was 14.0. | ||
| Levor |
Hey Danny, I'm curious, how long was your wait for the stator at Latus... I'm getting some telltale signs now on my 09 CR, but already need to take it in due to a cluster issue (communcation error), and am not convinced I want to leave my bike the entire summer while I wait for the supplier to get its shit together and send out the parts. That is, assuming, its a stator. So far, I'm thinking I'm just going to tell them to not worry about the electrical for now and do it closer to the end of summer (my warranty ends in Oct) if I can get away with it. Unless, of course, turnaround time is pretty quick! | ||
| Wheelybueller |
Pdccd Sent Friday.you should have it monday or Tuesday.  | ||
| 1_mike |
Dktech - My bike is dated build of mid 08...! The stator also has a date of early 08 stamped in it. Not any 09 dates anywhere...so far on this bike. So much for the 09 build thought... AND...another thing I forgot to mention on my last rant... Some of you have seen this same PROBLEM... When I removed the airbox for easier access to the stator harness....the INSIDE of the airbox is what I would consider full of not only visable dirt...but small rocks also...!? Who the f**k designed this airbox ? We'll see what a good coat of grease around the seals will do..!? Ya know...I'm used to driving oddball vehicles and the associated difficulties that can come with them. And don't get me wrong, I do in general...like the 1125's. But the overall quality....is piss poor. I've owned my fare share of first year vehicles also. My CR, while being a second year vehicle is more like a prototype in it's problems. And I've had less thAn some of you have had...! Rant #2 over. The case cover is back in place (with slight modifications)...and still charging properly. Though a stator is on order...just in case. Mike | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
1_mike, an "08" stator may have been produced in 07, When i said 08 stators I meant the stators that were designed for the 08 bikes, the lower output stators. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Levor - The bike died on Sat the 12th of June. Latus picked it up on the following Tuesday the 15th. I picked it up today July 2. 2 weeks? As I was picking up the bike the mechanic was coming in to consult, as I looked up we smiled and remembered each other. I spoke first, "Hi Dan." Dan the mechanic answered back, "Hi Dan, do you still have your S1?", Yes! Fourteen years ago when I got my S1 he was the Buell guy at Latus, he still is! He still has his S1 too. I asked Dan how many were left from the old location/days. He was the only one left and added that he has been with Latus for 18 years. Big party this weekend at Latus-HD, the "Wall of Death" motorcycle show and the biggest flirt I ever met, Cookie Crum. http://www.latus-hd.com/ (Message edited by dannybuell on July 02, 2010) | ||
| Pdccd |
Thanks bud. You rock. Already got it today and I'll ship it soon for r&d. Cross your fingers lol. | ||
| Ultimo_justin |
         | ||
| Ultimo_justin |
so for some odd reason i cant seem to see all the texts i had for each image. o well. in short this is my stator at 4000 miles (3200 when the harness was installed) I would like to thank Parrick for the details on how to remove the cover and stator, I also did remove a lot of the GOOP that was still in the cover, when the holiday is over I will be calling around to get my stator rewound and pray that this will never EVER happen again. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Ultimo, where is this info on cover/stator removal from Parrick to be found? | ||
| Ultimo_justin |
here is a copy and paste from one of Parricks posts: I just finished replacing the stator on my '09 so perhaps I can offer assistance... Removing the cover is not terribly difficult but it is complicated mainly by 3 things: 1) You are going to have to drain all the oil. You probably already figured that one out as you already know that the oil cooler lines have to be disconnected. The service manual lists a special tool for removing the oil cooler line retaining clips. It can be done with common hand tools if you pay attention and are careful. When replacing the cooler lines the clips are replaced first and then the lines are pushed into the connector to click into place. It looks at first glance like you can remove the cover without first removing the lower oil cooler line...you can't, take it off. 2) There are some very strong magnets in there. The alternator rotor has very strong magnets which make it challenging to get the cover off and maintain alignment without scraping internal parts. It also makes it feel like the gasket is sticking when you start to remove the cover because the magnets pull the cover strongly down against the crankcase when the cover is within about an inch of the crankcase. You will need some sort of alignment tool to keep the cover lined up during removal and install. I used 4 steel rods about 5 inches long that were close in O.D. to the diameter of the cover bolts. I threaded the ends of the rods to screw into the cover bolt holes after the bolts were removed so the cover could slide on and off with alignment maintained. 3) The big one: Stator wiring harness The stator wiring harness consists of 3 yellow wires covered by a black plastic sheath which extends up along the side of the engine through a plastic guide. It has a connector at the top end which is located under the seat. The description in the manual gives the impression that the whole thing can be pulled through after the terminal connector is removed. You might get it out that way but I doubt you would ever get it threaded back in through the plastic guide. There are a lot of other wires going through that same guide and it is very tight in there. Here is what I did: First you have to disassemble the connector and remove the individual wires. The connector has a plug in the end opposite where the wires enter. That plug is pulled out easily with needle nose pliers and then you can release the wires from the connector by using a pick to release the retainer clips inside the connector. Once the wires are free you can pull them out of the connector and slide them out of the rubber grommet they pass through. Now you have 3 free wires with crimp terminals at the ends. Next cut off the shrink tube at the top end of plastic sheath that the wires travel through. Now you have 3 free wires that travel through a plastic sheath which extends through the plastic wiring harness guide. The plastic sheath will remain in place and provide the route to fish the wires back through the guide. You will need a way to pull the wires back through the sheath after you pull them out. I used 3 long pieces of thin stainless steel tie wire. Attach the tie wires to each yellow wire at the crimp connectors. Now you are ready to pull the wires out. Lubricate the inside of the sheath with spray silicone and pull the wires out one at a time leaving the tie wire behind in their place. Now the cover can be removed from the engine. To get the wires back through the sheath after the cover and gasket are replaced you use the tie wires to pull them up through one at a time. I used a generous amount of silicone grease on the wires to make it easier. It's tight in there and if you mess it up you are looking at an extensive tear-down to rotate the engine to get to the plastic wiring harness guide and re-route the stator wiring harness. After you get everything put back together and the wires in place you can replace the shrink tubing and reassemble the connector. If you are replacing the ignition cover gasket you will also want to replace the sealant around the rubber grommet which the stator wires pass through where they exit the ignition cover. The manual calls for Harley super-whatever grey RTV sealant. I bought a tube of this and it was about 3 years old and thick as cookie dough. I used Permatex Ultra Copper RTV sealant instead. It has similar composition & properties. This sealant area is probably the source of your leak if I had to guess. Now, before you do anything make sure you determine where the leak is coming from. The CP sensor also has an O-ring on it which is in the same area you describe. If that's what is leaking it is an easy replacement. (1 bolt) The ignition cover gasket is part #R0008.1AM Ignition cover bolt #8 (copper washer) is the first bolt counter-clockwise from the CP sensor. These are just tips. I wouldn't attempt to mess with it until I had the service manual in-hand. Good luck! -Pat | ||
| Lrsawyer |
Regarding 1_mike's comment above on the airbox being full of stuff: There is a small opening at the front of the airbox to a scoop that comes out under the triple clamp. This is used to force air (unfiltered) into the box, pressurizing it proportional to your speed. There is inherently going to be a bunch of junk in there, but the air filter prevents it from entering the engine. | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
^^^^^^^^^^ I had a wasp that I caught found him after getting home on the bike after I had gotten the resistor for the denoid. Dam thing wasn't quite dead | ||
| Pwillikers |
Ultimo_justin, From your pictures it looks like the stator windings are melted near the three small holes which would be at the 12 o'clock position when the stator is mounted. At 6 o'clock, they look to be in reasonably good shape. Is this a correct reading of the pictures? If so, this could be evidence of insufficient cooling oil which would expose the top of the stator to overheating and keep the bottom submerged and hence properly cooled. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Ultimo and Parrick, thank you very very much. I can't imagine the average Harley wrench doing all that detail work for removing the cover so I'll do it myself for sure. So far no stator problems I'm aware of but plan to do the grinding etc mods. Thanks again. |
