| Author | Message | ||
     Black |
Kevin_stevens, Stop making sense! I mean it! Right now! | ||
| Fast1075 |
The failed stators that failed after the harness upgrade look like the failed windings in a three phase motor that have suffered a phase loss....the "isolated" winding did not burn out, but the other two did. One of the other burned out stators is clearly the result of failed insulation. They all appear to be pretty well dipped, so stator hum is most likely not the problem... I would think that wire with the proper insulation would solve the problem...years ago when I worked at an auto electric shop, we had problems with stator burn in automotive alternators used in police cars....the cars would sit idling in the florida heat in the middle of summer...at idle the cooling fan in the alternator is ineffective....the OEM stators would overheat and burn out. We solved the problem by finding a supplier that used refrigeration grade wire when they wound their stators...not only did they hold up, they had better output.....just sayin' | ||
| Dannybuell |
Fast1075 - Refrigeration grade wire, that gives hope for a better stator. Priced at; http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/Stators -------Aprilia Mille $175.00 -------Ducati 996 $140.00 (Message edited by dannybuell on June 19, 2010) | ||
| Xbud |
So does anyone know for sure what the stator problem is? Is it the grade of wire for the winding? Is it the coating or lack of on the windings? Or a combination of both? Just curious before we send these stators out and have them build a super stator, not sure if that would be a cause for concern or if this would cause other problems. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Xbud - I know nothing about this, but I do pay attention. Three or four areas of concern about stators have been shared on this thread and others. On motorcycles in general the stator has the; core, windings, and epoxy insulation. This object as a whole generates heat. Motorcycles in general use oil to cool stators. The Buell strategy has been to supplement this design by knocking a couple of legs off the grid and use them as heat sinks. This is not working. In my opinion using an object for a purpose other than its intended use is always questionable. Why no new part number? Harley probably has a boat load of these stators (pun intended). At $600.00 a piece in a market where the average price is less than $200.00(see my earlier post). Who cares if you have to warranty a few? You will get your money back on the parts end when the warranty runs out. (Message edited by dannybuell on June 19, 2010) | ||
| Lucky_jim |
Just gonna chime in here with my own experiences. I've gotta have one of the lowest mileage stator failures. I had the harness upgrade done after the bike was uncrated.. so at 0 km. Since I'm still breaking the motor in, the revs were always kept under 6 grand, usually around 3. First time I noticed a problem was when I took my bike in to work.. very heavy stop and go traffic, and I got the battery warning light coming on. The fans would no longer stay on after the bike was off, and I'd get the warning light every time I started the bike and occasionally when idling. The bike had approx 500 km at this point. Rode it around like that for a week or so, then realized without the fans running much after the bike cools might cause some problems, so I parked it and scheduled to bring it in to the dealer. Dealer tested the battery, stator, and ended up replacing the voltage regulator. I picked up the bike today, and it was at 13.5-14V for.. a little bit. Then it kept dropping in to the 12's, and when I took the bike out again this afternoon, it would drop to 12.0 quickly when I was stopped. Drove it back to the dealer, they tested the stator and are now ordering the parts... I have about 700 KM on the bike now. The stator was testing ok before, but the bike had had some time to cool down. It was pretty hot when they tested it today and it failed right away...  | ||
| Tpoppa |
The 09 stators have been back ordered several times. So, I'm guessing that HD doesn't have a huge number of them sitting on the shelf. It sounds like they're ordering small batches from their supplier as needed. It would seem that HD could develop a stator with a coating that can withstand higher temps with minimal R&D and without having to scrap a large amount of inventory. | ||
| Parrick |
Here is what I found when I replaced my stator. Sorry if the explanations on the pics are hard to read. The pic series was originally prepared for another purpose and I couldn't get the forum size restrictions figured out quick enough so I went with links. If anyone wants to download the photos and repost them in the proper format feel free.         Bottom line: In my opinion there was a shortcut used in the assembly of the engine. A type of form-a-gasket was used to isolate the stator cable from sharp edges inside the ignition cover rather that manually deburring the machined surfaces. The form-a-gasket glob creates a dam which prevents the oil from circulating properly and cooling the stator in that section. | ||
| Fireboltxb9r |
Hello Gents, Bought my '09 1125R 2 months ago with 1950 miles on it. I took to dealer with 2560 miles on it. Just picked it up Friday after having the open campaign "wiring harness update" completed. Dealer also replaced my instrument pod and speed sensor as gear indication and mph readout would intermittently read "--" and "0" respectively. Turns out pod was fine and it was a defective sensor. They tell me they also updated bike to most current flash 142. As I start on my first ride after warming bike (idling about 1500rpm), bike stalls as soon as I put in gear, stalls again as I reach end of my 75' driveway, and again 100 yards at end of street! Not getting a real "warm and fuzzy" feeling at this point as I never had this issue prior. Either way I continue on and hit the highway where bike is running sweet and I'm loving life. I stop two separate times, once for breakfast and then fuel, and stalling issues are no longer present. Don't understand what happened at first start. Either way, about 160 miles into my ride (varying range of speeds and rpms) battery and check engine lights come on. I check volts and bike is reading 12.2. Now focused on volt readout things get really unnerving. Volts start dropping before my eyes to 11.9, 11.5, 11.2 and then start to rise again slowly up and over 12. This up and down reading continues a few different times. During this time battery and CEL go off and on with no real rhyme or reason, with just the battery light coming on some of those times. "SYSTEM VOLTAGE" warning appears and disappears as well As I'm hoping to make it home before dark, thinking maybe I'll lose just my lights, things take a turn for the worse. Volts start dropping quickly and I now see a "SYSTEM VOLTAGE" warning again and within approximately 15 minutes, volts drop to 10. I was very wrong about losing just lights (forgive my ignorance as I'm no where near as technically savvy as many on this forum)as the motor dies at 45mph and I coast to side of road. At which point a restart attempt get me nothing more than a "click, click, click" sound as I press start button. Stranded after 190 total miles since harness upgrade (bike total now 2750), and 40+ miles from home I call friend for help. Thank God, I wasn't 300 miles from home on day 1 of a 4 day trip like another fella on this post! Based on what I've read here, I think I'm in the same boat as many with a failed stator and who knows what else. My concern is will a factory replaced stator with the combination of the harness upgrade resolve this issue? Or am I destined to have another failure down the road? I'm thinking I may have to rely on my '03 XB9R with 20K miles for any long distance rides! It's never let me down (except a snapped drive belt 3 miles from my house). I plan to contact Buell customer service first thing Monday as suggested by Tpoppa on this thread. I sure hope this can be permanently resolved and my confidence level restored to that which I have with my Firebolt!! Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions, from fellow riders are greatly appreciated. I love this 1125R and want her "RIGHT"! Thanks guys!  | ||
| Xbud |
Hey Parrick good job, Thanks for the pictures, makes things a little clearer as to the cause of the stators burning up. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
parrick, that is a great post, the only thing i would worry about with your fix is that you have ground down the supports for the stator cover, if you cover gets a great force on it during a accident i think it would be prone to cracking due to the lack of those supports. | ||
| Cmmfiremedic |
I contacted customer service on friday and really didn't get anything out of them. I was nice even though I was the one that broke down on day one of my four day trip. I just wanted to get out of them what they were planning to do after everyone warrenty ran out since the harness doesn't solve the problem and if they were trying to come up with another solution. I never got an answer. It was a wasted phone call in my opinion. They never would answer any question. Mine is still in shop waiting on parts. | ||
| Avc8130 |
Dktech, I think I would take prolonged stator life over protection in a POSSIBLE crash situation any day if parrick's method can be proven to work. ac | ||
| Dannybuell |
Parrick - Thank You for your story. Excellent documentation and insights. In debur picture #5 the discoloration is at approximate rib position 4 o'clock. If I understand correctly you are saying that the oil flow is coming from above and is being blocked by the glob at the 1,2, and 3 o'clock positions so the 4 o'clock position gets no oil? Is this a case of engineering defeated at the factory floor? | ||
| Tpoppa |
I REALLY hope that HD releases an updated stator soon. I REALLY like my 1125R, but I sport tour hundreds of miles from home in rural pats of WV. I just don't want to worry about my charging system crapping out. I should get my bike back this week. If another stator fails my bike will be within the guidelines of the Ohio Lemon Law. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I need a bike I can count on. We'll see... | ||
| 1_mike |
Parrick - Thanks for laying that all out like that. The stator on my 03, R1 failed at about 40,000 miles. After taking it apart, while different, the oil circulation was also hampered and that's also the section that failed. I..as you did...fixed the problem before putting it back together. By your pictures, I would as you have, be concerned of the problem being as you state. Removing the ribs and adhesive is a good call. Strength as noted by another....the material removed ISN'T gonna protect anything from breaking. Again, good work and letting us know. I'm wondering if mine is on the way out..it did a strange thing one day last week that it's never done. Maybe it's just time do take it apart and perform your surgery NOW...! Mike | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
Parrick, I am assuming that you replaced the stator yourself? Did you follow the instructions in the service manual for sliding the wiring down/up the guide? Or did you find an easier way to deal with the wiring? | ||
| Parrick |
Dktech, I really didn't take much metal off. The pics might be a little misleading in that aspect. All I did was round off the sharp edges left from the factory milling. The initial work was done with a fine diamond dremel point followed by a polishing point. It looks rough but is smooth to the touch. Then I scrubbed and rinsed in a parts washer extensively - you don't want any diamond particles left behind. Most of the scrape-marks between the ribs are from the removal of the silicone glop. That was all done with dental scrapers & picks by hand. It is stubborn stuff and took a while. Danny, I would say that your conclusions are accurate. I could find no viable reason for the silicone glop except to isolate the wiring from the sharp edges on the ignition cover. Dcmortalcoil, Yes, I did the stator myself. I did follow the service manual instructions for the most part - with necessary modifications. I detailed the process in an earlier post: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/503427.html Interesting to note that there is no mention of the silicone glop in the service manual. It is a time consuming process to remove it all completely. I expect that when the stators are replaced under warranty the old glop is left in place and the new stator wiring is simply fitted into the groove left when the old stator is removed. Again, this is all only MY opinion based on MY observations. Is it a fix? I don't know. In my case I figured that improved oil flow in the area couln't hurt. -Patrick | ||
| Pdawg1970 |
Parrick....wow! your post & pics were VERY HELPFUL! i just had the harness 'upgrade' at 4000kms. the 2nd time i rode my 09 1125r the stator failed in the exact same fashion mentioned in this thread & all other 09 stator issue threads. my HD dealer took the bike in & after a complete diagnosis they will be replacing the stator, regulator (rectifier?) and the battery...seems like they have all succumbed to damage from the stator fail. before they put the new stator in i am going to insist they let me have the cover back so i can de-burr & clean it up, just like in your photos. i am pretty handy with a dremmel & i have numerous dental picks on hand (i use them for repairing paintball markers). my dealer has been pretty cool about all my suggestions & i think they will be on board with this one too. i am also going to try & get the burnt stator back so it can be sent out & re-wound with better wire.....just in case its needed again! i'd just like to say to everyone here that i am very thankful for all the great help & information you provide.  | ||
| Ultimo_justin |
this might sound like a stupid question but is there any 2010 models that have had stator issues? whats different about the 10s that allow it to not have the charging harness? are the 10s stators any different from the 09s? | ||
| Xbud |
I think the problem is that there weren't many 2010 models made before the Buell shutdown. You would have a hard time trying to do a comparison on 09 to 10 failure rates. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
are the stators for 09 and 10 the same p/n? The p/n for 09 stator is Y0442.2AM. Anybody know if that is also the p/n for the 10 stator? | ||
| Tpoppa |
The harness update was for 09s & 10s. I'm guessing it's the same stator. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Anonymous - Where are you? | ||
| Hdwrenchtx |
i just dropped off my 2010 for a charging system issue. will be a week before they can look at it | ||
| Kenm123t |
I am going to use infared thermography to see if i can find the hot spot as detailed by Parrick I ll post pics of the results as soon as I can Check out the Flir website for detail of how it works | ||
| Cringblast |
Well thought the 09 CR issues were over, NOT. Had the stator replaced at about 4k, and the harness installed at about 10k. Now at 12K went for a ride Sunday and got the CEL and battery light. Fans turned off, temp went up and threw 5 codes. Voltage has been 13.7ish for a while then Sunday 12.8, 12.5, 12.3, 11.9, 11.7, 11.5, AAHHHHHH!!! Back to the dealer for the 9th time for issues, recalls and service bulletins! AAAhhhhh. C. | ||
| Pwillikers |
Parrick, excellent expose. Thanks. Now, A question for Parrick and others that have had the opportunity to examine failed stators. Do they all loose their insulation and fail in roughly the same spot Parrick has pictured? Specifically, adjacent to the three small holes? When reassembled, where are the three holes? Are they at the highest point of the stator and therefore the spot most likely to not be submerged in oil? (Message edited by pwillikers on June 21, 2010) | ||
| Tpoppa |
Parrick, excellent expose. Thanks. Now, A question for Parrick and others that have had the opportunity to examine failed stators. Do they all loose their insulation and fail in roughly the same spot Parrick has pictured? Specifically, adjacent to the three small holes? This is based on observations from a few knowledgeable folks that have been examining failed stators... The 'hotspot', the pole that seems to suffer the most heat damage is the one pole that all three phase wires converge upon, and proceed into the harness. So, this is the spot where the most heat is focused. The design of this stator is problematic (obviously). The harness is a poor fix for a poor design. | ||
| Black |
So, Can I say that the stator is the problem? No rotor problems? Same wire size? Same insulation? Bad design? As I recall, the problem with dead batteries in the 08s was due to a poor design also and an underpowered charging system. Somehow that seems to have fixed itself. How can that be? Do we know what we are talking about? Sorry guys, but until somebody examines a whole bunch of failed charging systems for a root cause, we are just whistling in the dark. We might as well be discussing poetry. |
