| Author | Message | ||
     Drawkward |
As Hogzilla stated, and I agree, I am moving any potential helmet discussion from Jake's thread to this one. Here is the article from Motorcyclist Online: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcyc le_helmet_review/index.html It's hard, good evidence that super expensive Snell approved helmets don't offer any more protection...and in a lot of cases, offer less. It is clearly a marketing scheme with a little bit of science mixed in. Please read the ENTIRE article...not just the first couple paragraphs. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Also realize that some helmets are not Snell approved simply for the fact that the company does not want to pay for the testing procedure. Not for the reason that they will not pass the tests. | ||
| Hogzilla |
Nothing but good can come of helmet discussions. Interesting article. I think I would only add, my last helmet, a Shoei RF1100 was bought from a recommendation of a racer who had gone down and was sold on the quality. Testing is important, but real world experience from racers who REALLY can put this equipment to the test is what sells me. If a guy can get up after a 160 mph fall and bashed up helmet, sign me up. BTW, what was Geoff wearing when it launched his bike at Miller? I want THAT one. LOL Many have said, and I fully agree, the best helmet is the one that fits you properly. A poorly fitted helmet won't do the job it's designed for. | ||
| Xbud |
Your best bet is to find companies or governments that produce their own tests and then release this information to the public as a safety publication. I came accross the link listed below that tests most of the major helmet brands by model, because there is a difference, do you think the HJC that Ben Spies is wearing can be bought off the showroom floor? The best you can do is your own research and make a desicion from there. I personally think the Arai, Shark, Shoei, and Suomy helmets are your best bet if your not doing research, and the age old question comes to mind, do I need a $500 helemt? Can you live without one? I personally hope I don't have to find out. http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/ | ||
| Drawkward |
Xbud: Did you read the Motorcyclist article? Why do you think Shark, Shoei and Suomy are your best bet? That Sharp site lists 2 Shoei's, 3 sharks and 1 Suomy as 5 stars out of 27 helmets that were awarded 5 stars...there's a 100 dollar Lazer helmet that made the list. And that Sharp rating system is only for European helmets...in the article I linked the companies even say that they send different helmets to the European markets.... (Message edited by drawkward on June 11, 2010) | ||
| Jrfitzny |
that's why I try not to crash  | ||
| Xbud |
I dont go to extremes to prove my point or make a case for my point of view. If you feel your head is worth $100 Lazar helmet, you might be right. I feel mine is worth some research, that does more than the crap test that snell does. And now I ask you, did you read the rebutul comments at the end? Did you read the part were they admitted their testing might not have proved anything more than one type of accident testing? Did you know that most of the helmets I mentioned are made in Europe and are available in the US as well. I think you need to do some more reading, and those are a lot of words to be saying nothing. | ||
| Xbud |
Thanks for editing out the rude comments. | ||
| Drawkward |
I read the entire article Bud. Did you read how Motorcyclist responded to the rebuttal comments? Snell is a scam for marketing a product that's "safer" to the public. There are a million different accident scenarios and not one helmet company will ever test them all. So what makes you think that spending $500 on a helmet makes you any safer inside of it when the research has only shown you 2 different crashes. But if a $100 Lazer helmet performs as well as a $500 Arai, all things being equal, you'd have to be a jackass to spend the extra money. Right? Going off of the Sharp standard, there are at least 10 helmets listed under $250 that got five stars for their performance in the 5 zone hit test. So why spend double on a helmet that tests the same or worse? I don't get it. Just because it has a 60 cent Snell sticker on the back? Some of the helmets you mentioned are made in Europe indeed. But their market for helmets in Europe is different than in the U.S.A. So if you want to base your research off of what Sharp is saying, then be sure to buy a European market helmet... The only point I'm trying to make is that throwing money at a helmet doesn't always make you safer...and it's proven. EDIT: I edited my post before you even made yours Bud, so don't try to start shit with me. (Message edited by drawkward on June 11, 2010) | ||
| Xbud |
Usually the company with a $500 helmet has done years of their own research that has tradiationally grown from a racing pedigree. These racers are not going to trust themselves to a helmet that passed a DOT or Snell certification. If you had a choice before you went on the track to grab a Lazer Helmet or An Arai RX-7, what would you choose? If you feel you are wasting money by helping support a company with R&D to develop better technology than more power to you. And I freely start shit with anyone, and I dont hide every little aspect of my identity. | ||
| Drawkward |
Honestly...if the helmets test just as good as an Arai or other big name helmet, I'm going to buy a cheaper one...no doubt about it. There is no reason not to when the scientific method has proved it to be just as safe, if not safer, than a more expensive helmet. What you pay for IS the racing pedigree and the big name, not necessarily the safer product. Good for you...you can freely start shit with anyone you want, tough guy. And it's people like you that are the reason I hide all of my information. There's no reason you need to know it, and therefore it's not posted. You want to know something about me so you can make a personal jab, just send me a PM and I'll tell you. | ||
| Froggy |
Both of you knock it off. I don't care who starts what, either make good posts without rude comments or just don't post at all. | ||
| Jdugger |
The fit is more important than the brand, honestly. The key is that your head doesn't rattle around inside and there aren't significant "hot spots" of contact. I fit the Arai Corsair series well, but can't afford them, really. I like the Scorpions for track day duty. Inexpensive and quality. I crashed and hit so hard I *** CRACKED *** the Scorpion. After about 100 ft of earth-sky-earth-sky, I was a bit dizzy, but within 5 minutes was pushing my bike back into pits on my shove of shame. I promptly went out and bought another scorpion. Damn fine helmet, IMHO. I just wished they offered a proper dark shield, blue based, with UV protection. | ||
| Joebuell |
helmets are like guns... they are useless if you don't have it with you at the time of need. If that pricey foo foo helmet is so comfortable that you wear it all the time, then it's worth every penny. | ||
| D_adams |
I'll take the Arai helmet ANY day over a cheapie helmet. My head and what's inside it are definitely worth the extra coin. The wife agrees and she even bought me my latest one, even though she doesn't ride. She also bought me full leathers, boots, gloves and anything else I said I might either want or need. I'll take the full gear route with the (to me) better\more expensive gear every time. She sleeps better knowing that I have the best gear I can afford. It's not the top of the line, but it's not crappy gear either. (Message edited by d_adams on June 11, 2010) | ||
| Augustus74 |
Even if the 2 helmets performed the same, can it be done on a consistent basis? I would trust the more expensive one to be consistently built to a high standard. | ||
| Jdugger |
> I would trust the more expensive one to be consistently built to a high standard. Hence, Arai's margin. They are great helmets, no question, I just don't have any evidence that suggests their construction is any better than the well made $100-$200 helmets. Again, fit is more important than manufacture. | ||
| Xb1200rick |
If that pricey foo foo helmet is so comfortable that you wear it all the time, then it's worth every penny. I usually only wore my full helmet when I was on the Buell . I seldom wore it when I was on the cruzer because I hated wearing it...Till I bought the Shoei. I like that helmet so much I would wear it to bed if I could.  Rick | ||
| Thecowboyblack |
Love my Arai foo foo...  | ||
| Kidder |
Who actually read the article? Cost isn't always a factor in how a helmet performs (as far as protection, anyway). That article was outstanding in that it exposed Snell for their faulty testing. And, it caused helmet manufacturers to rethink the Snell certification. If I were to buy a helmet right now, I would buy one with a DOT cert and NO Snell cert. I always look for a helmet that is ECE approved, BTW. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
People are programmed to think expensive stuff is always best. This is not the case with helmets--amoung other things. Sorry. The SNELL 2010 standards are different from SNELL 2005 standards for a reason. After MUCH rhetoric and denial, SNELL even admitted the old SNELL standard had room for improvement. I agree with JDugger, $100 to $200 helmets (while not as pretty or trick) can provide protection equal to the "top of the line" helmets. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
PS, I wouldn't take splitting, cracking or plain getting F'ed up in a crash as a bad sign...to me that's the helmet absorbing the energy as opposed to your head...one of the fundamental flaws of a SNELL compliant helmet is too hard of a shell--which allows energy to go right thru the shell to your noggin. | ||
| Joebuell |
I read the article and agree with every word. I wish I could get a NON snell helmet that was as nicely constructed as an Arai or similar. My point is that you have to be wearing it first. Then you can argue about snell vs non snell. The painful truth of the matter is that every quiet, well venting, comfortble helmet I've ever seen had a snell sticker. The article has me trying to figure out how to source a non-snell Arai marketed for a different country... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I wish I could get a NON snell helmet that was as nicely constructed as an Arai or similar Not much of a selection but there are some nicer helmets out there DOT-only. YOU have to look hard. | ||
| Ratgin |
Wish i could find a lid that would fit my giant head. 25" is a pain to fit. | ||
| Drawkward |
Kidder: My point exactly. You have to read the article. Otherwise it's pretty pointless to argue that more expensive helmets will be better. It's simply not true. | ||
| Kc10_fe |
Yeah so cheap helmets work fine in a crash. Ill continue to pay extra $$$ for reduced noise, better venting and adjustable cheek pads (expense=comfort?). If I could find a cheapo that offered those. This article is spot on but I have to ask why would you consider going cheap on the one article that will save your life? $12-20K on a machine, $200 on boots, $200 on pants, $500 for a Vanson, $100 for gloves and then moan over a few 100 bucks on a lid. My Dot/Snell did fine by me on May 3rd when I hit the road at 35-40. Helmet, shoulder, hip and knee took the blows. I will be healed up long before I see my 1125 again. The blip in the article about the military standard does not hold water here. Flight helmet liners are custom molded to fit your head by life support. Then they are expertly fitted and tightened by technicians. If you were to purchase that off the shelf your would be into the $1k+ range. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Ill continue to pay extra $$$ for reduced noise, better venting and adjustable cheek pads (expense=comfort?). YOu will be hard pressed to find a quiet helmet that also vents well. The quietest helmets are ususally the cheapos cause they dont have the venting. Moot point for lots of us that wear earplugs.} | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
I thought the advantage to the $400+ arai, shoie helmets is that you can crash in them 3-4 times, where as the regular $100-200 helmets are done after one crash. I have a regular hjc $150 helmet, i hope i never have to crash test it, but i have confidence it will work properly. | ||
| Jdugger |
All helmets are "one hard crash" items. One of the reasons I don't wear Arai, even though I prefer them, is the cost. I owned a brand new Corsair for about a month when an old man -- he was just trying to be helpful -- picked it up, lost his handing of it, and dropped it on a rail. Arai offers an inspection service, so I sent it in, and the helmet was considered "done". $600+, out the window on a simple drop. |
