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Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 05:40 pm: | 
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Johnnys999-
It's not a suspension/handling issue, it's the fact that the Ducati engine design employs a very lightweight flywheel. A lightweight flywheel allows the engine to spin faster (higher rpm), which a v-twin needs in order to be competitive with an inline-four of similar displacement on the racetrack. The main reasons Ducati has been able to keep up with the I-4 crowd is due to a displacement advantage, desmodromic valve actuation, and serious R&D which results in things like extremely light flywheels. It works great at higher rpm, but at the bottom the design is akin to a two-stroke- except not as smooth.
My point has nothing to do with chassis, suspension, or ergos- it's the off-throttle performance that is as bad, or worse than an 1125. In my opinion going from an 1125 to any Ducati in an attempt to improve low speed/low rpm performance is an exercise in futility. My personal experiences with Ducati are from riding the following models: 996, 998, 999, 900SS, Hypermotard, Monster 1100S, Monster 900, Monster 800, Monster 750 (owned 2), Multistrada, and GT1000 (owned 1). The combination of light flywheel and US-spec gearing (to pass the EPA db test) makes for a bike that shudders and shakes during light throttle, low rpm operation- it's the nature of the beast.
At the other end of the spectrum is any Buell with a Sportster-derived powerplant. The Thunderstorm engine, although a throw-back to simpler times like the desmodue models, is the antithesis when it comes to low-rpm/off-idle performance. Due to its heavy flywheel, off-idle operation is effortless. What's worse is the effect is exacerbated if a rider learned on, or is used to a heavy flywheel engine- lighter flywheels feel like trying to move a bus with a weed-eater engine. Of course, gearing and mapping can be adjusted, and with all things it is subjective- each rider will have their own opinion of the effect. But the fact is that Ducatis have light flywheels, and they are not conducive to smooth, low speed, low rpm, off throttle performance. I have many friends who own Ducatis, and every one of them agrees that during low speed, low rpm maneuvers their engines are not happy, and express their displeasure by shaking, rattling, and rolling. It is what it is. |
Gas
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 06:47 pm: |
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Fam, I have a CR and an SV, but the Suzuki has been switched to regular bars from the Woocraft clipons I had installed. It still has the rearsets and a rear suspension upgrade, but I am riding the heck out of it as my commuter. It isn't so bad on the highway either. I have a friend who wants me to convert IT to a motard. hmmmmm.... |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:17 pm: |
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Gas, Believe me, I'd seriously consider the SV if I didn't plan on occasionally having my wife ride on the back. It's a heck of a fun bike, Esp with a 2mm over set of pistons, GSXR fork and Penske shock  |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 09:32 pm: |
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When one of the biker women I know saw that I had moved from my black S1 to my red CR the first words out of her mouth were; "You would get more p***y with a big twin." Years ago, I had one friend who wouldn't ride with me but occasionally she just wanted to start the S1 up and set at it for a few minutes with a fast idle. Happy face every time. Get a big twin for your wife. |
Dc29
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 12:28 am: |
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When I ride with my buddies and just joy riding I ride my XB 12. Most of them don't like the pace I keep. So I have to let some one else lead and just sit back. Ride my R alone most of the time or have to wait for the others to catch up and thats a bummer. Try a XB of your choice before you give up on the Buell brand. Monster low end,very fun at a lower speed than a 1125. Good luck and be safe. |
Greenflash
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 01:54 am: |
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It's interesting the commonality some of us have in bikes owned. re: Ducatis, I own both a 999 and an ST4. I used to own an '01 900ss. In Buells I have a S3T, 1125CR and 1125R. (Yeah, I know that's sorta overboard - I have a Victory and an MX and trials bike too! I guess I don't have to mention that I'm not married!)
I geared both the Duc 999 and 900ss down right away, as Ducatis are known for their high gearing. On the 999, I didn't need the stock 165+ mph top speed and it now requires less clutch slippage around town. The ST4 sport-tourer is more tractable, but all of them including the desmodue 900ss weren't really happy below 4000 RPM. There will be some drivetrain snatch and jerking below 4K, and the dry clutch is not great for excessive slipping either. I haven't ridden the latest desmodue 1100s, but I would think they are not that different.
I just hopped off the 1125CR and I really think it is more tolerant of 3000-4000 rpm operation than the Ducs, although its sweet spot is also above 4000. For example, riding on A1A here in FL at the 35mph speed limit is easier at 4000 rpm in 2nd than 3000 rpm in 3rd; i.e., easier to hold a steady speed.
Redbuell, I totally agree that if I spend a lot of time on my Thunderbolt, whose happy zone starts at 2000 rpm, and ride my Ducatis or 1125s immediately, there is some adjustment time needed. But this adjustment passes, and consciously keeping the revs up enough is the key. Sometimes I have to keep reminding myself mentally. I still think the 1125 is plenty torquey for a high-performance engine, and it's just a matter of time to learn it's preferences. |
Dirty_john
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 02:05 am: |
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I onwed an XB12R for quite a few years, there was a 12 month period when I kept my XB12R which coincided with the first year of ownership of my 09 1125R so I was in the fortunate position of being able to compare both.
As much as I loved the torque characteristics of the XB the 1125R is just so much more, I found I was changing down unnecessarily on the XB, I had subconsciously changed my riding style back to my old two stroke twin days of the late 1970s, thus with regret the XB was sold since I started riding the 1125R in greater preference, as the original author of the post are you sure you are doing the right thing in parting with your bike? Good Luck anyway with what ever you chose.
(Message edited by Dirty_john on April 09, 2010) |
Johnnys999
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 04:07 am: |
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I've only had one aftermarket light flywheel and that was on my SS. Just like most people I've spoken to about them they don't make a big difference and engine performance actually can suffer when the flywheel is too light. I think the DP light flywheel is just right. Generally I think light weight flywheels are overblown anyway and if you have too light of a part you have to contend with stalling.
Again, jerky performance is just typical on many Ducs at low RPMs, you simply have to adjust for it and move on. The one device that worked really well on that issue is the FatDuc 02 manipulator. It was an immediate fix for my too lean Multistrada and it also resolved most of the jerkiness. My 916 had no appreciable low speed surging and the like, the 14T front sprocket really helped, in fact I would say the upgrade fixed it all. My 999S was the worst of the bunch, even with a PC and dyno tune. I only kept it less than a year and then bought a 999R. Now this bike ran perfect from day one, even at low speeds. You will never find that kind of low speed good behavior out of a 749R though.
As you said, it is what it is and even the worst case scenario wasn't all that bad. Ultimately you can fix it, its not like a gremlin that won't go away, I think. |
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