| Author | Message | ||
     Aj2010 |
I have seen a few threads about HID head lights, not wanting them to re-start after the starter is engaged etc. Also questions about ways to have the headlight off until after the engine was running, save battery power while playing with the instrument cluster. So here is my idea/question for those that know more about it. As far as I can tell from the wiring diagram, the only thing the start relay does is cut power to the headlight during start, allow the ECU to control whether or not power can be routed to the start solenoid and actually rout power to the solenoid. The wire from the ECU (-) to the start relay could also go directly to the starter solenoid (replacing the ground). The wire from the start switch (+) could then go directly to the starter solenoid instead of the start relay. Ignition switched (+) could now go to the terminal on the start relay that the start switch wire was removed from. The wire from the start relay to the start solenoid could be removed. Essentially when the ignition switch is turned on, the start relay would turn the headlights off, the start solenoid would function as before, controlled by the start switch and the ECU. When the ECU senses that the engine is running it would cut the negative (-) to both the start relay (turning the headlights on) and the starter solenoid (not allowing the starter to be engaged while the engine is running. The only issue I can see would be whether or not the combined draw of the windings in both the start relay and the starter solenoid would be more then the ECU can handle ..... Any one know what the draw would be and what the ECU can handle? Another way would be to use the (-) from the oil pressure switch as the ground (-) for the start relay. But I suspect that the draw of those windings are minimal and it's the draw of the windings in the actual solenoid that may be more then what the ECU can handle. Who are the resident electronics know-it-all's? P.S. I've checked a couple of Ducati wiring diagrams, their starter solenoids are directly controlled by the ECU. | ||
| Zac4mac |
You're thinking too much, making my brain hurt to look at it(this IS what I do tho). I got a pair of HIDs a couple of years ago. Got a relay also, but never used it. wanna buy it? Since August of '08 I have run HID lo-beam with no relay. 24k miles so far, 14k on the HIDs. By the time the ECM has done its polling, the lights have warmed up enough that they don't seem to mind re-starting. My experience with a sample group of one only. Zack | ||
| Froggy |
Turn key on, input PIN or wait for dash to start flashing COLD. Press starter. Never had an issue. | ||
| Ccryder |
If you use the accy plug to power your HIDs then they won't ignite until the engine is started. Or just use a time delay relay. Or just do what the rest of us have done and don't worry about it. I've got 32,000 s'miles on mine wired to ignite when the key is turned on. | ||
| Froggy |
The accessory plug is live as long as the key is on and the kill switch is on and has sufficient voltage, no engine required. | ||
| Ccryder |
IIRC it's hot after the engine is started. | ||
| Nillaice |
and the accesory plug will cut out power if the battery voltage dips below the setpoint.(don't recall what that is right now) intended for cutting power to the heated grips to keep the motor running and get you to your destination. cutting power to the headlights could be bad ..... by the way, have you had your stator/charging system recall done? | ||
| Nillaice |
and i think you are thinking too much | ||
| Tibman260 |
AJ, I would highly suggest against running the starter solenoid straight to the ECM. You questioned correctly on whether the ECM could handle that current load and the answer is no. The driver for the circuit is not able to handle that kind of current which is actually a couple amps. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I have a Kuryakyn LED voltmeter on Loretta. At first release, it seemed as tho there might be electrical issues- There were on a small number of the first 1125s but not mine Voltmeter is on the Accy plug and it comes on several seconds AFTER the motor is running. Z | ||
| Aj2010 |
I see a few people suggesting that I am thinking too much  it may be true, reading over various post about guys having low voltage warnings after spending a few minutes scrolling through on screen menus (headlight on, motor not running) and commenting that it would be better to not have the headlight on until the engine was running. Coupled with the comments about HID ballast's not being happy with repeated start ups, it just seemed to make sense to me. Using the ground for the AUX relay, would make sense ..... Having your headlight shut off during a low voltage situation, how ever could be a bit dangerous. I could add a relay to the low beam side of the headlight circuit, but with the power for the headlight already running through two other relays it just wouldn't make sense unless I eliminate the start relay from the headlight circuit and use the key relay to cut power during start up. This would also have the advantage of being able to simply pull the headlight fuse and still be able to start the bike, if any track days are in my future. I have some idea now what to do and what not to do but it will require some testing ie. finding out if cutting power at the key relay during start up will trip a fault code (key relay supplies power to the speed sensor) Nillaice, the dealer told me that everything including the latest flash have all been done before I picked up the bike. I did not get to take the bike for a test ride though, as the weather in Vancouver was worse then the weather back home. Thanks for the constructive / positive input, to those who made some  | ||
| Torquaholic |
while trying to figure out why the HID kit i ordered wasn't fitting right today (the bulbs they sent weren't the ones I ordered), i did have time to install the wolstentech TDR-P time delay relay. End result: it works! With the factory headlights still in place, i hooked everything up and tested it out. At first, the lights came on instantly and I thought I did something wrong in the install. Nothing wrong, just had to adjust the knobs some. After a few tries, i had it adjusted out to about 12 seconds. Now turn the key to the "on" position, headlights automatically turn on about 12 seconds later. That leaves me plenty of time to start the bike without pulling the amps to run the lights, also keeps from doing the hot re-strike when the HID's are installed. I'll probably install an interrupter switch just for trackdays, leave the stock chassis wiring as it is but still be able to switch off the lights when i want. Here's a rough diagram of what I did today, will add the interrupter on the 12V line next time I'm out there.  | ||
| Syonyk |
Excellent, I was debating putting a switch/relay in, but I think a delay relay might work better. | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
I understand how that wiring diagram works but am un famililiar with a time delay relay can any one please elaborate what this is and how it works, because I have my HID kit on order and might be interested in using one of these if it will increase my bulb life because of less on/off operation | ||
| Syonyk |
It's pretty simple. It just delays the output for a defined period. In this case, the light is delayed for, say, 10 seconds after voltage is detected by the relay. So instead of "key on; light on. Start button; light off. Release start; light on" the system waits until there's been voltage for a defined period, and won't fire the lights until then. It reduces electrical load on the system too - you don't have two HID starts on a weak electrical system when trying to start the bike. This is a good thing - the 1125s don't exactly have a "robust" electrical system. | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
thats what i thought it was thank you know where to source one? | ||
| Torquaholic |
I have a bias opinion, having only dealt with one individual, but wolstentech (http://www.wolstentech.com/index.php) replied to several e-mails and helped me figure out which relay to purchase. The end result was very simple and easy to install. The TDR-P, by wolstentech, is the delay relay I purchased. It is designed to switch the positive side of a device, which is exactly how I showed the wiring diagram above. Researching online, it seems the DEI 528T is also a popular alternative, but it looked larger and didn't seem as clean as the wolstentech piece. | ||
| Aj2010 |
This looks like a good option as well. However the above circuit diagram does not show the "KEY" relay which is between the battery and the 15 amp headlight fuse. I would be a little leery about adding a third relay (third set of contacts) for power to have to go through before actually reaching the headlights / ballasts. | ||
| Torquaholic |
valid point, Dennon. In that case, maybe i should run a ring terminal off the battery to an inline fuse holder, straight up to the TDR-P 12V input contact. Use the #3 blue wire solely for switching purposes on the "1" input contact,and exiting through the "L" contact output. that would mitigate load on that circuit before the TDR-P. What do you think? | ||
| Aj2010 |
I do have a plan ..... not a definite plan mind you. I tend to get carried away with things ..... evidence my two project bikes. The 1125 is supposed to be the rider while the others slowly get figured out and assembled. I think I am going to wait on modifying the wiring at least until I have the bike back together and on the road. I am all for not having the lights on at all until the engine is running, whether that be 5 seconds after the ignition is switched on or after 15 minutes of playing with our friend ODIS. I would like the ECU to control this but there are valid concerns with how much current that circuit can handle. I do have a multimeter but it only deals with mili-amps. (1) Since the "KEY" relay already controls power to the headlight it seems that that one relay would be sufficient IF having power cut to the speed sensor either during start up or until the engine was running, would not trip a fault code. This I will test for once the bike is reassembled (still have the rear subframe to get welded and the tips on my muffler and the heat shielding on the frame around the motor). Does anyone know if the diagnostic run through on power up is simply a resistance test of the speed sensor? Or does it require both + and - be present at that sensor? Using the "KEY" relay and then removing the blue headlight wiring from the "START" relay would mean the solenoid would be activated on the 15A key fuse/ circuit, and that the light fuse could be removed for track days with no ill effects. (2) Removing the Blue wires from the "START" relay (joining them together) and jumping power from the R/BK (ignition switch @ "KEY" relay terminal # 11/1/86) to the "START" relay terminal # 6/3/30), then adding an interrupt relay on the low beam (Yellow) and or (Blue) wires to the headlight. I have not checked the wiring to the headlight, not sure why they bother with having the yellow wire if they are using the blue one for low beams??? The advantage here is that you have eliminated one relay/set of contacts AND if anything goes wrong with this (added in) relay, you still have high beams (good if the going wrong happens at night) and track days involves just pulling the light fuse. (3) leave it all stock and install the third relay once again only on the low beam side (ie. after the blue wire supplies power to the high/low switch, so either just before the headlight wiring connector or just after it NOT down by the fuse or relay box. Again this gives you the advantage of having high beams if anything goes wrong with this third relay. Still running power through two other relays though. I like the idea of using less relays directly in the light circuit. I also like the idea of any changes (additional relays etc) to ONLY effect low beams, especially if that relay is controlled by either the ECU or grounded through the oil pressure switch. At this time I believe my final decision will depend on whether not having the speed sensor powered during the diag run through and start up will trip a fault code. If it doesn't then I will go with the first option and have either the ECU or the oil pressure switch and the ignition switch control the relay (with a ground interrupt). If fault codes would be triggered then option #2 ..... still liking the idea of one relay in the light power circuit though. GOSH, I've written a novel  (Message edited by AJ2010 on March 11, 2010) | ||
| Aj2010 |
OK, re-wiring done. Power for the headlight only runs through the "KEY" relay now, dimmer switch controls high beams and left low beam. Right low beam is connected to the AUX circuit/ relay and will shut down during low voltage situations. Headlights are now off when the run/kill switch is in the off position, left low and both high's are off if the engine is not running. I think that having two circuits control the low beams individually (and separate fuses) is a good idea. Especially if my engine should stall at night (as the headlights shut off if the engine isn't running) I believe that it does trip a fault code with the speed sensor not being powered up until the engine is running, but I am prepared to live with that. |
